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Entrevista com o advogado que se aposentou aos 33 anos.

Eu acidentalmente comecei a pesquisar este artigo cerca de 2,5 anos atrás, quando passei por Chicago na longa viagem de volta de um verão no Canadá. Houve um encontro de centro de Mustachians e mantivemos um pub e, eventualmente, o vizinho lugar Falafel aberto até tarde. Um do grupo era um jovem advogado em um escritório de advocacia de prestígio e ela generosamente me ofereceu um lugar no quarto de seu apartamento.

Quando começamos a conversar, descobri que meu novo amigo não era seu advogado comum. Com pouco mais de 30 anos na época, ela estava morando em um lugar simples, mas simples, com uma decoração a condizer. Ela não possuía carro e usava uma bicicleta para ir trabalhar. Hospedei companheiros de quarto e surfistas de sofá como eu ocasionalmente como uma maneira de cortar contas de aluguel e conhecer novas pessoas. Sua dívida de US $ 100 mil na faculdade de direito havia acabado há muito tempo e ela afirmava estar apenas dois anos depois da aposentadoria.

Anita e eu mantivemos contato ao longo dos anos desde então, e eu estava realmente interessada em ver se ela seguiria com esse plano. Tendo revisado seus números financeiros (um comportamento normal e desinibido entre nós, nerds do dinheiro), eu sabia que a idéia era sólida & # 8211; ela teria muito dinheiro para viver. Mas quando chegasse o momento da verdade, ela realmente desistiria de um emprego no topo da escala de renda? Untold de anos de escola e centenas de milhares de dólares em taxa de matrícula & # 8211; tudo por uma carreira jurídica que durou apenas cinco anos?

Mas, eventualmente, esses anos se passaram e, em agosto, vi a seguinte foto aparecer no meu feed do Facebook:

E eu sabia que era real.

Anita sempre foi uma ávida viajante do mundo. Então, desde a sua data de aposentadoria, vi mais fotos da Austrália, Europa, Ásia, América do Sul e outros locais interessantes. Eu sabia que tínhamos que rever sua história inspiradora aqui na MMM, porque há milhares de advogados menos afortunados na platéia que podem se beneficiar de sua ajuda.

Eu falei com ela por e-mail e telefone recentemente, enquanto ela passava um tempo em Santiago, no Chile. Para os fins desta entrevista, vamos chamá-la de Thriftygal, como esse é o nome que ela usa em seu blog (mais sobre isso depois).

Minha entrevista com o advogado desistente.

Sr. Money Moustache: Então, eu li no seu blog que você entrou na faculdade de direito em 2006, menos de um ano depois que me aposentei. Lá, você acumulou mais de US $ 100.000 em dívidas de empréstimos estudantis, mas pelo menos se formou com um grau relativamente poderoso que encontrou um emprego imediato. Como você conseguiu isso, quando a maioria dos advogados me diz que há muitos graduados correndo atrás de poucos empregos?

Thriftygal: O segredo mais divulgado sobre a faculdade de direito é que apenas as almas que frequentaram as melhores faculdades de direito (ou aquelas que se formaram no topo da sua classe nas faculdades de direito mais baixas) têm um tempo relativamente fácil para encontrar um salário absurdamente alto. trabalho. Eu também passei a procurar emprego no doce lugar do nada antes da recessão.

Então, em poucas palavras? Sorte.

MMM (aparte): Entendi & # 8211; sorte. A Thriftygal não só obteve um diploma normal de economia aos 20 anos, como também trabalhou em tempo integral em vários setores para pagar as contas. Mas ela então voltou e formou-se em Direito pela Universidade de Chicago em seu próprio centavo, que aparentemente é um dos cinco melhores do país, com mensalidades atualmente cotadas a US $ 55.503 por ano. Um belo tipo de sorte que parece suspeito de trabalho duro, mas admiro a modéstia.

MMM: OK, agora você é um graduado de 27 anos que trabalha com um salário extraordinariamente alto. A maioria de seus pares está comprando grandes carros e casas para celebrar, mas em vez disso você sente um mal irradiante vindo de sua montanha de dívidas. Com menos de um ano de salário bruto, eu pessoalmente não veria essa dívida como grande, mas é tradicional entre os médicos e advogados para esticar o reembolso em 10 anos ou mais. Naqueles anos, algumas pessoas gastam mais do que isso em um único carro ou barco. Por que você era tão diferente de seus colegas de trabalho?

TG: Eu amo a frase irradiando o mal! Eu pensei nisso mais como um jogo embora. Esses bancos me emprestaram essa quantia exorbitante de dinheiro com a idéia de que eu pagaria uma tonelada de juros ao longo dos anos. Eu queria o melhor fim do negócio. Se eu quisesse pagar-lhes menos juros jogando mais dinheiro no diretor, não havia nada que pudessem fazer sobre isso! Eu senti como se estivesse ganhando sempre que eu calculei o quanto menos interesse eles teriam de mim.

Além disso, estou um pouco envergonhada de pensar sobre isso agora, mas lembro-me distintamente preocupante que minha empresa iria perceber que eu era uma fraude e me pedir para sair. Eu não pude entender por que exatamente eles achavam que eu estava qualificado para ganhar 160 mil dólares recém-saídos da faculdade de direito. Eu percebi que depois de ler um artigo anos depois, eu estava sentindo algo chamado "síndrome do impostor". # 8221;

MMM: Um ano depois, a dívida foi despachada. Você ainda estava em seus 20 anos sem filhos, sem dívidas, alto salário e baixo custo de vida. Certamente então você estava pronto para se soltar? Que condições de vida você escolheu naquele momento?

TG: Ah, eu soltei tudo bem! Eu comprei um monte de água de coco muito cara. Saí com os amigos com mais frequência e me permiti viajar internacionalmente pelas férias. Eu ainda tinha uma colega de quarto porque éramos boas amigas e gostava de morar com ela. Eu ainda levava meu almoço para trabalhar na maioria dos dias porque eu gostava de manteiga de amendoim e geléia. Eu ainda aceitei as roupas de segunda mão de minhas irmãs porque eu odiava fazer compras. Eu ainda andava de bicicleta para o trabalho porque era divertido. Todas as coisas que eu fiz que eram frugais também eram boas para minha saúde e bom para o ambiente, assim eu não vi nenhuma razão para mudar só porque eu não tive mais pagamentos de empréstimo.

MMM: Qual foi o momento de definição (lugar, tempo, idade, talvez uma história de um evento crítico frustrante) quando você decidiu se aposentar mais cedo do que a tradicional carreira de 40 anos? Como você imaginou que sua vida seria depois de se aposentar?

TG: Eu lembro de ter conversado com um amigo enquanto estávamos na faculdade de direito depois de entrevistarmos com essas empresas gigantescas. Perguntei-lhe se fiz quatro vezes o que a pessoa média fez, por que não posso me aposentar quatro vezes mais cedo? Ele me garantiu que não funcionava dessa maneira *, mas eu não fui vendido por seus motivos. Eu nunca fui uma pessoa materialista, então a ideia das coisas não me atraiu. A ideia de liberdade e de ter meu tempo sendo meu, dormindo, lendo e viajando, agora era essa a vida que eu ansiava.

MMM: Eu me lembro de quando eu tinha 26 anos e minha namorada (agora esposa) e eu tomei a decisão de realmente ir para a aposentadoria antecipada, ainda havia um período de vários anos de trabalho hardcore, ganhando e economizando, enquanto o resto do mundo (por exemplo, nossos colegas de trabalho) continuou em seu caminho alegre. Eu estava me tornando mais eficiente e motivado, e esse contraste fez a cultura de consumo padrão parecer cada vez mais bizarra e extrema em contraste. Você notou algo semelhante?

TG: A cultura do consumidor nunca me atraiu. Eu nunca fui fã de compras. Eu sou bastante pequena, então encontrar roupas era sempre uma tarefa e não uma atividade divertida. Eu gosto de vagar e a idéia de bagagem e ter muito lixo para carrinho estava fora de questão. Eu preferiria ter o dinheiro do que as coisas que eu sabia que estavam destruindo o planeta e não me trouxeram muita alegria.

MMM (à parte): Uau, neste ponto da entrevista escrita, fiquei um pouco preocupado: Thriftygal soa muito menos materialista do que eu. Afinal de contas, eu estou em casas extravagantes, equipamento de áudio agradável, eu comprei um carro agradável em meus 20 e poucos anos, e assim por diante. Em nosso telefonema subseqüente, ela me assegurou que ainda tem vícios: um novo Toyota Corolla comprado a crédito antes da faculdade de direito, muitas viagens internacionais, boa comida e mais do que alguns dólares em bebidas caras enquanto viajam também. E ela gosta de ter dinheiro suficiente para ser generosa com os outros sem arrependimento.

MMM: Em algum lugar nesse período, você estava lendo blogs & # 8211; primeiro Early Retirement Extreme e depois Mr. Money Moustache depois que entrou em cena. Como você acabou lendo aqui e depois me proporcionando um quarto de hóspedes no qual bater no caminho de Chicago?

TG: Eu engoli todos os artigos de finanças pessoais que encontrei quando estava pagando minhas dívidas e depois de um tempo eu não estava aprendendo nada de novo. Eu gostei ERE, mas pensei que poderia ser um pouco TOO extremo para mim. Meu amigo me apresentou ao seu blog logo depois que você começou e descreveu como "o PhD de finanças pessoais", onde tudo era "finanças pessoais do ensino médio". Achei que era bem apropriado. :)

MMM (à parte): Hmm, eu pensaria que ERE é o PhD enquanto eu sou mais do curso básico de Engenharia de Computação com um aprendizado nos ofícios de construção. Mas claro, eu vou levar o elogio.

TG: E então eu vi o seu post sobre o primeiro retiro no Equador! Eu estava fora da dívida por esse ponto, apaixonado por viagens, prestes a me mudar para Sydney, tinha um grande blog sobre você e Jim Collins, então naturalmente eu agarrei a chance de participar. Foi uma das melhores férias em que estive e foi maravilhoso conhecer tantas pessoas que pensam da mesma forma que não zombaram quando eu disse que queria me aposentar em alguns anos.

MMM: Quanto dinheiro você acha que precisaria se aposentar (seja em termos de dólares ou um múltiplo de despesas?) E você desistiu quando atingiu exatamente essa quantia de dinheiro?

TG: Eu li o seu dinheiro ou a sua vida e comecei meu próprio mural. Assim que minhas despesas mensais médias nos últimos anos foram inferiores à minha renda passiva projetada, eu sabia que poderia viver o mesmo estilo de vida que eu tinha atualmente (e amava) e que não precisaria mais trabalhar. Eu fiquei um pouco mais do que precisava porque eu estava morando em Sydney e sob contrato, o que eu absolutamente não me arrependo.

MMM: Uma vez que você cortou o fluxo de renda, como você mantém o dinheiro alocado para que a maior parte dele permaneça no trabalho para você, mas você tem uma quantia razoável fluindo para a conta corrente para despesas mensais?

TG: Eu tenho um pouco mais de um ano de despesas na minha conta corrente. O resto do meu dinheiro está escondido em investimentos. Quando o dinheiro da minha conta corrente começar a se esgotar em janeiro, eu posso procurar um emprego de meio período se o mercado de ações ainda estiver na faixa média, mas isso é um problema para mim no futuro.

MMM (aparte): Uh-oh! Você acabou de dizer que você pode trabalhar novamente, eu estou chamando a Polícia de Aposentadoria da Internet! Eu segui com Thriftygal neste ponto e ela disse que o trabalho ainda seria totalmente desnecessário do ponto de vista financeiro. Ela só gosta da aventura de trabalhos novos e incomuns & # 8211; uma de suas primeiras passagens foi como comissária de bordo!

Se você tiver economizado o suficiente para cumprir a regra de 4% e tiver o dinheiro escondido em fundos de índice de taxas baixas, você receberá 2% em dividendos sozinhos, que podem fluir diretamente para sua conta corrente. Em seguida, você simplesmente define sua conta para vender automaticamente uma pequena quantia de ações uma vez por trimestre para manter seu saldo em ordem onde você quer. Isto é o que tenho feito nos anos em que a minha renda pós-aposentadoria do trabalho de passatempo variado foi menor do que os nossos gastos.

MMM: Eu vi uma foto de suas malas prontas em agosto de 2015, e eu sabia que você tinha puxado o gatilho e realmente se aposentado. O que você tem feito desde então? E que desafios inesperados a aposentadoria lhe apresentou? Você ofereceria alguma advertência a outras pessoas que estão se esforçando agora no equivalente a onde você estava, digamos, em 2011?

TG: Eu estou em uma busca sem fim para ver o mundo, então eu tenho acalmado meu desejo de viajar e viajar. Passei um mês na Ásia, outro mês em torno de Sydney, um mês + visitando familiares nos Estados Unidos, um mês + no Caribe e agora estou vagando pela América do Sul.

A questão dos desafios inesperados é a minha favorita porque eu sinceramente pensei que quando eu me aposentasse, minha vida seria todas as fadas e unicórnios dançando no arco-íris. E, embora eu realmente ame o amor, ame a minha vida agora, estou surpresa com a solidão que geralmente sinto. A maioria das pessoas que conheço trabalha e não pode sair durante a semana. Eu estou viajando, mas é principalmente solo como pessoas normais não podem se animar e vagar pelo mundo por meses a fio.

Eu também luto com a preguiça e me preocupo que estou perdendo meu lugar de sorte no universo. Meu conselho para as pessoas que estão se esforçando é ter certeza de ter uma idéia clara do que você quer que sua vida seja após a aposentadoria. Tenha listas de coisas que você quer fazer e realizar, porque se você é do tipo de pessoa que tem a disciplina para se aposentar cedo, provavelmente é o tipo de pessoa que não será feliz como uma viciada em televisão.

Para mim, nunca foi sobre disciplina porque eu nunca quis as coisas, as coisas, o lixo, o consumismo. Eu poderia estar perfeitamente feliz fumando maconha no meu sofá. :)

MMM: Esse ponto sobre todos os outros estarem presos no trabalho é bom. # 8211; alguns aposentados precoces se sentem como um garoto que está fugindo da escola e encontrando uma cidade vazia, e havia uma história recente do New York Times sobre a idéia.

Eu tenho uma perspectiva diferente, uma vez que a vida familiar me mantém ocupado, então eu tenho o meu vício em carpintaria (e mais recentemente este blog) e um bom número de amigos locais que são semi-aposentados ou autônomos sem horários de trabalho reais também. Tudo sempre se resume a ter bons momentos com pessoas que você gosta.

Então, de qualquer maneira, o mundo inteiro está aberto para você. O que você vê no seu futuro? Alguma vez você pegaria um emprego apenas pela diversão? Começar uma empresa? Trabalhar a tempo parcial? Estabelecer-se em um país diferente?

TG: Meu objetivo de curto prazo é viajar e marcar outros itens na minha lista de baldinhos de vida. Estou aprendendo a cozinhar comida indiana autêntica. Eu quero escrever. Eu quero ler muitos e muitos e muitos e muitos livros. Eu gosto de definir o meu despertador para quando eu normalmente acordar para o trabalho e, em seguida, gargalhar quando eu desligá-lo e voltar a dormir.

Meus amigos me dizem que estou tirando mais uma licença sabática prolongada do que aposentadoria, pois sei que com certeza vou aceitar outro emprego em algum momento. Na minha lista de desejos de vida, quero ver como é trabalhar em uma fábrica. Eu quero começar um negócio. Eu quero começar uma organização sem fins lucrativos. Há muito o que fazer, ver e explorar, e espero ter a motivação para fazer tudo!

Conclusão MMM: Isso soa certo para mim. Quando me aposentei há 10 anos atrás, eu não sabia exatamente o que estava na loja & # 8211; Eu só sabia que queria que meus dias de semana fossem tão divertidos e produtivos quanto os meus fins de semana pareciam ser.

Mas descobri que eu realmente adoro criar coisas (casas, frases, eventos, designs, aventuras, música, qualquer coisa), e essas atividades são frequentemente rotuladas como "trabalho". Mas se eu tiver que suportar até mesmo um único dia sem a oportunidade fazer isto, eu posso entrar em um funk depressivo. Claro, eu gosto de um café da manhã sem pressa e de uma vida não planejada. Mas eu não posso lidar com muita inatividade de achatamento de bunda.

Uma vez eu fiz uma viagem de uma semana em um navio de cruzeiro e foi um inferno para mim. Foi todo o consumo sem oportunidade de trabalhar em qualquer coisa. Sem ferramentas, sem Internet, sem planejamento ou preparação de alimentos e sem natureza. Eu tive que recorrer a subir e descer os 14 andares de escadarias, de pé no convés vazio e ventoso para olhar para o oceano e usar o ginásio entre as filas no buffet.

Eu escrevi mais sobre a conexão entre aposentadoria antecipada e trabalho contínuo em uma história para a Vox Magazine.

Acontece que Anita teve um blog pessoal o tempo todo e simplesmente não me contou sobre isso. Ela é uma escritora muito cativante e usou seu site chamado The Power of Thrift para documentar a batalha entre suas economias e despesas desde 2013.

O livro da Thriftygal.

Atualização: quase dois anos depois, ela acabou escrevendo um livro e publicou. Operação suficiente: como se aposentar extraordinariamente cedo está disponível em paperback e Kindle na Amazon. Caminho a percorrer Thriftygal!

* O ceticismo de Thriftygal foi garantido aqui. Fazer quatro vezes mais do que a média realmente permite que você reduza sua carreira pelo menos quatro vezes menos, mas isso não significa que a esperança está perdida para aqueles de nós com salários normais. O seu tempo para a independência financeira não depende do seu rendimento, mas da sua taxa de poupança, o que significa que viver com eficiência é mais importante do que ganhar mais. É muito viável se aposentar aos 30 anos, depois de nunca ganhar mais de US $ 40.000 por ano, mas igualmente possível (e muito mais comum) para ganhar US $ 300.000 e não tem nada para mostrar aos 60 anos.

Você pode gostar também:

Muito bom & # 8230;

Obter MMM automaticamente por email.

Krystal 13 de janeiro de 2016, 10h20.

UGHHHH Eu faço 30.000 como assistente social e minha única opção para ganhar mais é ir para dívidas para a escola e, em seguida, ser feliz se eu fizer $ 40.000 por ano. Bom para essa garota, mas isso não é a realidade para muitos de nós não fazer $ 160.000 / year :(

Matt K 13 de janeiro de 2016, 10h38.

Bem, é claro que não é a realidade para a maioria de nós, mas isso não é o ponto da história, é? Ela fez o melhor de sua situação, enquanto muitos outros saem e desperdiçam fortunas incalculáveis, porque todo mundo está dirigindo um E-class ou qualquer outra coisa que todo mundo faz a 160K / ano. Suponho que você e eu poderíamos ter escolhido um caminho mais lucrativo, não poderíamos?

Bazuca Frugal January 14, 2016, 10:17 am.

Você acerta o prego na cabeça. Isso me deixa maluco quando ouço as pessoas falarem sobre a desigualdade de renda quando escolhem um divertimento - artes liberais. grau e optou por um trabalho do governo que maximiza a 70k. Eles lamentam a desigualdade de outra pessoa que arrebentou a bunda para obter um diploma de direito e trabalhar 12 horas por dia e ganha $ 160k. O que é desigual sobre isso? NADA!! Se você quer mais da vida, seja conhecimento, dinheiro ou liberdade financeira, você terá que rebentar com você em algum lugar ao longo do caminho. Se não, pare de reclamar ... há até um nome para ele: calças de reclamar.

Matt 14 de janeiro de 2016, 11h27.

Há um argumento legítimo a ser feito de que nós, como sociedade, não valorizamos financeiramente aqueles que elegem uma vida de serviço. Da mesma forma, há também um argumento legítimo de que supervalorizamos financeiramente certas profissões quase sempre voltadas para maximizar e proteger os lucros e interesses corporativos.

Se a Pessoa A e a Pessoa B saírem da escola com um rácio de rendimento / dívida de 1: 1, com a pessoa A a partir de 24k por ano e a pessoa B a partir de 160k por ano, será muito mais fácil para a Pessoa B viver frugalmente e ter mais renda dispensável destinada ao alívio da dívida do que a Pessoa A, simplesmente porque a Pessoa A só pode reduzir muito as despesas antes de flertar com a pobreza.

Algumas pessoas optam por entrar no serviço público por um desejo genuíno de ajudar os outros e são recompensadas por isso. E eles costumam tomar essa decisão como um jovem de 18 anos. Não os deixe chutar enquanto estiverem inativos.

Eu gosto deste blog, mas alguns dos "que você obtém por tentar ajudar os outros!" # 8221; atitude que vejo de alguns comentários me deixa louca.

Perdido no espaço 14 de janeiro de 2016, 13:27.

OBRIGADO, eu notei isso mesmo!

Sra. Healthywealth 14 de janeiro de 2016, 21h08.

Este comentário foi muito gentil e apreciado. Como funcionário público, adoro ajudar a população desprovida de direitos. Minha mentalidade indo para este campo era ajudar os outros e ter um bom salário. Como assistente social inicial, eu fiz um salário base de US $ 45.000 com um mestrado, mas trabalhei horas extras todo fim de semana para ganhar US $ 80.000 e pagar a dívida. Eventualmente, dentro de 8 anos eu fiz $ 130k. Mas eu trabalhei pelo menos 60-65 horas por semana. Valeu a pena. Eu espero que isso não saia do julgamento, não é para fazer, ganhar dinheiro para se aposentar cedo para a maioria dos funcionários públicos, tem muito a ver com a sua mentalidade, colocando no tempo / esforço, algum sorte e ser frugal. Sério, muitos de nós recebem uma pensão gorda, todo o resto é cereja no topo do bolo.

Murillo 15 de janeiro de 2016, 01:34.

Concordo. Eu tenho um diploma de mestrado (não em artes liberais) e nunca cheguei a € 35k por ano. Eu me inscrevi no MMM por recomendação de um membro da família e achei um blog muito elitista. Gostaria de sugerir, não importa o quanto você se esforce, algumas pessoas simplesmente não têm a capacidade intelectual ou emocional para passar por programas acadêmicos exigentes ou manter-se com alguns empregos ultra-lucrativos. Eu conheço uma mulher muito inteligente que "quebrou" # 8221; na faculdade de medicina e está tendo sérios problemas por toda parte. Avarias acontecem. Pena que os moustaches adicionam insulto à injúria ao não reconhecer que as pessoas que lutam financeiramente PODEM ser (e provavelmente ESTÃO) ​​lutando intelectualmente, emocionalmente, mentalmente ou de outras maneiras também.

Hector D. 15 de janeiro de 2016, 13:35.

Ok, então eu acho que estou jogando os dois lados aqui. em última análise, o que você escolhe fazer com sua vida é a sua decisão. O que algumas pessoas não percebem é que quebrar seis números não é o fim de tudo ter estabilidade financeira e se aposentar cedo. confie em mim, eu estive lá antes de completar 25 anos com apenas um B. S. em um campo de computador! É o que você faz com o resto do seu tempo, recursos que importam!

Claro que eu poderia estar no caminho para me aposentar por 33, talvez, mas eu realmente não quero, porque eu amo fazer o que faço e ainda é considerado serviço público !! Eu vou dizer de novo, é o que você faz depois do seu regular 9-5 que realmente importa! Se você tem filhos, o que está impedindo você de obter uma licença imobiliária, e vender casas em tempo parcial para que você possa eliminar a dívida e investir como louco em coisas que lhe darão uma renda residual a cada mês? O que o impede de trabalhar até às 11 da noite apenas para voltar para casa e dormir 5 horas e voltar a ele 6 dias por semana!

De certo modo, pare de reclamar de verdade! Ela pegou um ** e foi capaz de se beneficiar de todos os anos de trabalho duro, você também pode! Dizer que o serviço público não paga tanto é uma porcaria completa, você acabou de escolher essa profissão específica de servidor público & # 8230 ;. ninguém é bom em apenas fazer uma coisa!

Eu digo isso como um ex-membro de serviço de 28 anos que vive com dores no tornozelo / joelho devido a cirurgias militares fracassadas, mas você sabe o que? que é a vida! Eu normalmente trabalho 60 horas / semana de trabalho para que minha esposa possa ter um emprego de meio período e passar mais tempo com as crianças e não ter que pagar as despesas de creche! Encontre uma maneira de fazer o trabalho para você se a aposentadoria antecipada é o que você quer! Se você for capaz de dormir uma noite inteira, acompanhe seu programa de TV favorito, mas fique imaginando por que você não está ganhando o suficiente para se aposentar cedo & # 8230 ;. pffff, você está fazendo errado!

Eu não quero que meus comentários sejam tomados como um insulto, eu realmente quero dizer isso!

Bazuca Frugal, 18 de janeiro de 2016, 22:42.

Eu vejo seus comentários como inspiradores, com zero insultos em anexo. Continua a me fazer cócegas que as pessoas que não acreditam que possam ter sucesso por qualquer razão se importam em ler um blog baseado na suposição de um compromisso pessoal de lutar constantemente pelo sucesso sem desculpas.

Você senhor não dá desculpas, apesar de suas dificuldades e é por isso que, finalmente, você terá sucesso em tudo o que você tentar.

John Galt 16 de janeiro de 2016, 09:58.

Ninguém aqui está escolhendo em baixa renda multidão. Todos os bigodes estão dizendo que você não precisa de muita porcaria para ser feliz. Claro, se você ganhar menos dinheiro, é mais difícil se aposentar cedo, mas se aprender a ser frugal, sua vida será menos estressante.

Leia o milionário ao lado. Um cara era um motorista de ônibus e economizou seu dinheiro para enviar seus filhos para Harvard e Yale. Ele investiu e dirigiu o ônibus.

Tudo isso soa como uvas azedas para mim.

Sr. Frugal Toque 16 de janeiro de 2016, 10h15.

Eu teria dificuldade em fazer uma observação geral sobre como os Mustachians consideram pessoas com rendas mais baixas, ou pessoas que não têm a "resistência intelectual / emocional". para lidar com empregos de maior renda.

A filosofia do Mustachian concentra-se principalmente nas pessoas que * já * estão ganhando muito dinheiro, mas gastam em veículos de grande porte, possuem um iate, tiram férias ridículas, compram refeições em restaurantes diariamente etc. & # 8211; basicamente aqueles que tentam encontrar a felicidade através do consumo de bens materiais.

Qualquer julgamento que você esteja considerando contra pessoas de baixa renda não deve ser considerado como uma parte vital da filosofia.

Megan 18 de janeiro de 2016 às 15:07.

Obrigado. Bem dito. É importante ter em mente o público-alvo deste blog. Nunca se pretendeu ser uma abordagem de tamanho único, embora o conceito de consumo consciente seja relevante para todos nós.

Genevieve Hawkins 20 de janeiro de 2016, às 12h15.

Cerca de dois anos atrás, o MMM era o meu site favorito que eu estava verificando todos os dias para novos posts. Agora eu chego a isso uma vez por mês. A razão é porque eu não obtenho muitos artigos sobre como poupar para a aposentadoria com uma renda de 100K. 160K por ano é cerca de 150K mais do que eu preciso. Então eu prefiro artigos sobre trazer as despesas para perto de zero. Há um monte de moral implícito nestes "se eu desistisse do (cão, carro, filhos, dívida, casa grande, maus hábitos), então eu poderia fazer banco e se aposentar mais cedo. Mas eu, realisticamente, nunca espero chegar a algum lugar perto disso em um ano e ficarei contente em ser feliz, em vez disso, & # 8230;

Empregos de serviço público são muito bem avaliados. Seu pagamento nunca é baseado em sua habilidade de fazer coisas boas. Você escolhe uma carreira sabendo disso. Se o seu objetivo é ganhar dinheiro rápido, entrar em uma carreira que (A) envolve um empregador confiando em você com muita responsabilidade pelo bem-estar de seu empregador, (B) requer treinamento especializado e experiência, e (C ) ganha muito dinheiro para o seu empregador. Essas são as chaves para um alto salário: risco, oferta e demanda e lucratividade.

Compare um assistente social e um CEO, por exemplo. Risco: Se o assistente social fode, alguém pode se machucar & # 8211; uma criança, uma família. Se um CEO fode, milhões de crianças e famílias podem se machucar. Oferta e Demanda: Um bom assistente social é um centavo a dúzia. Um bom CEO é difícil de encontrar (impossível, em algumas mentes). Lucratividade: Um assistente social não gera nenhum lucro. Um CEO é responsável por praticamente toda a capacidade da empresa de gerar lucro.

Matt 15 de janeiro de 2016, 11h40.

Eu adoraria ver como você chegou às conclusões do seu último parágrafo, pois acho que o oposto geralmente é verdadeiro em relação ao risco do CEO. Os CEOs são muitas vezes recompensados ​​por seus erros, e muitas vezes em detrimento direto a milhões de crianças e famílias, & # 8221; como você tão descuidadamente diz.

Então você vai casualmente fundar importância com rentabilidade. Rentabilidade dificilmente é um indicador de importância social. Nem é um requisito para uma democracia saudável e funcional.

Há muitos, MUITOS povos, que têm a capacidade de funcionar para ganhar salários altos e avançar na escada corporativa, mas A) Não pode devido ao simples nepotismo ou favoritismo, ou B) Não será devido à apreensão moral ou ética, ou mesmo C) Encontre a linha de trabalho para ser emocionalmente insatisfatória.

Democracias em funcionamento NECESSITA pessoas que escolhem uma vida de serviço. Eu só posso imaginar o quão mais pobre fora como uma sociedade que seria sem os gostos de Martin Luther King ou outros membros que dedicaram o seu trabalho árduo & # 8221; para a causa da elevação social em vez de lucro.

Eu sinto muito, mas qualquer um que ocasionalmente presume que apenas os ricos trabalharam duro & # 8221; aparece como politicamente ingênuo. Há desigualdade BRUTA (especialmente nos EUA) e os números indicam claramente que esses fatores são o resultado do design econômico, e não alguma mudança cultural súbita em direção à preguiça. Tudo bem se você quiser se preparar para a independência financeira, mas não vamos ignorar essas realidades. Isso é apenas preguiçoso.

Se você ler com bastante atenção, perceberá que eu não disse que o pagamento do assistente social ou o pagamento do CEO dependia de maneira alguma de * cumprir * com sucesso qualquer objetivo. Isso não é sempre o caso. Mas aqui está uma dica: você tem uma chance melhor de encontrar incentivos adequados quando trabalha para o tipo de chefe que assume que o trabalho duro e os bons resultados se correlacionam. :)

E o lucro é imensamente importante para a função da humanidade, contanto que o dinheiro represente o que realmente é suposto: poder produtivo. (Se isso é verdade ou não é outro debate, não é realmente relevante para este post.) Sem produtividade, nós murchamos e morremos. Seu telefone, seu carro, até mesmo sua comida são produtos que não são naturais (pelo menos não em quantidades que podem sustentar todos nós), e são todos o resultado de pessoas perseguindo o lucro. Agora, isso é "simplesmente & # 8221; coloque & # 8211; que é como eu gosto de colocar as coisas. Você estava correto lá! Então, vamos dizer da maneira mais simples possível: sem os serviços sociais, algumas pessoas sofrem. Sem produtividade, todas as pessoas sofrem. Isso cobre uma das três razões pelas quais um CEO é geralmente mais bem recompensado do que um assistente social, e com razão.

Mas, novamente, você é bem-vindo a ignorar tudo isso, já que eu sou apenas mais um advogado rico! (Esqueça que apenas a parte "advogado" é verdadeira "você me enganou e entrou em seu palanque. Eu não posso mudar sua opinião!)

Justin 15 de janeiro de 2016, 14:16.

Primeiro de tudo, eu não vejo ninguém querendo saber por que um CEO ganha mais dinheiro do que um assistente social. Isso é um homem de palha.

Independentemente disso, pela sua lógica, os assistentes sociais devem ser pagos tanto quanto enfermeiros e talvez médicos. E definitivamente mais que advogados. Afinal de contas, se um assistente social transar, alguém se machuca (abusado, negligenciado, doente, suicídio, assassinato); se um advogado se fode, bem, na maior parte do tempo, custa dinheiro para as pessoas. Assim, os assistentes sociais devem receber mais do que advogados. Que tal agora; se um programador transa, o software quebra e um aplicativo é mal executado; as vendas da empresa são lentas e o valor das ações cai. Parece que.

Obviamente eu sei que não como o mundo funciona, mas é aí que o seu argumento leva.

Quanto à lucratividade: talvez você seja um libertário, mas & # 8230; Você não acha que algumas coisas (não tudo, você mente) devem ser valorizadas para seu benefício para a sociedade, não apenas a rentabilidade imediata? Considere o custo financeiro para a sociedade de abuso sexual, saúde mental, pobreza, falta de moradia. Essas coisas têm prazos longos e consequências dispendiosas no sistema médico, no sistema prisional e no sistema de justiça criminal. Não faz sentido pagar pela prevenção e tratamento destes problemas, mesmo que os clientes "reais" & # 8221; não pode desembolsar a massa? Como nós investimos em estradas e educação?

Finalmente, por que você acha que um bom assistente social é um centavo? Falta de assistente social do Google & # 8221 ;. Por último eu cheques, os advogados eram um centavo de uma dúzia embora.

Não é um homem de palha, mas uma anedota em resposta ao comentário que incorpora vários dos comentários aqui que nós, como sociedade, não valorizamos financeiramente aqueles que elegem uma vida de serviço. & # 8221;

Eu não tenho conhecimento de uma falta de assistente social, nem sinto a necessidade de olhar. I agree with you 100% that there is an overabundance of lawyers in most geographic markets in America right now. The salaries and unemployment levels help illustrate that the market is saturated. So in that sense, you have helped prove my point.

You cannot take any single indicator of the market value of a job (in your case, supply) and say “Well then, this one is worth as much as or more than that one.” Just like any other commodity, labor is subject to many influences. The strongest of which, I believe, are the three I laid out above (which happens to include supply, as one part – see how much we have in common!).

I also think you can safely assume that long-term profitability is built in to most transactions, including in labor. Not all, possibly, and maybe there’s some work available in education to correct this shortcoming in the market. But the wage of a social worker already includes the necessary incentive to get the bare minimum we think we need to accomplish enough social work goals. Same goes for lawyers. Maybe the market is correcting itself now, and maybe social worker wages will rise. Maybe not. Maybe they don’t need to. Or maybe they need to change drastically. Eu não sei. But I do know that there are long-term benefits to all jobs that you are failing to see. How about how many people are not on the streets because Bill Gates helped make the offices of the world more efficient and thus helped productivity skyrocket globally in fields completely unrelated to computer science? Social workers might have reasons to feel good, but it’s very short sighted to think that only feel-good jobs actually do good.

Lastly, I am not a Libertarian. I am not affiliated with any political party. But at least you did not assume one of the other, larger parties, and for that I am grateful. Obrigado!

Also, my “dime a dozen” comment was probably a poor choice of words. Let me put it this way: Compare the availability of a good replacement, and certain careers that are far less “socially valuable” & # 8211; since that seems to be your concern – suddenly become way more profitable than the more “socially valuable” carreiras. Compare a social worker to an NFL player. There are many fewer people in the world who can be an NFL athlete than who can be a social worker. Fire a social worker and you can put out an ad and get a new one in days. Maybe a better one. Fire Peyton Manning and try to replace him.

Nathan May 30, 2016, 12:13 am.

As a programmer, I can assure you that the potential consequences of screwing up are much worse than you imply; if a programmer doesn’t do their job right, it could result in millions of people getting their identities stolen, bank accounts emptied, credit ruined, place of residence compromised, or any number of other awful things. Causing an app to run slowly is just about the least amount of damage a programmer could do if they mess up.

Leslie January 19, 2016, 11:26 am.

In 2010 a faulty P. G. and E. gas pipe line with defective welds resulted in an explosion that killed 8 people in San Bruno, California. The company was fined 1.6 billion by the state PUC. The CEO retired that year with a retirement package of 35 million dollars. Failure was profitable for him.

Aaron January 26, 2016, 7:50 am.

What shoddy work. Every CEO knows you should double check your welds!

Bill January 19, 2016, 5:40 am.

I haven’t seen anyone say, “that’s what you get for helping people”, but I can see people finding fault with those who chose a path that is not as marketable, and then complaining when their income lags the higher paying fields. It may not seem “fair”, but its normal economics. Usually businesses have more money than individuals, so those who can provide value to those with money (business) will usually be paid higher for that higher value. As you said, they are helping the business remain profitable and that’s why they exist. If you want to help people, who have less money than businesses, then you will be paid less. Unless you cater to the wealthy, which is why their advisors still do well. Accountants, lawyers, etc.

I’m not sure that it is society that overvalues these people or undervalues those who serve others. Accountants and lawyers serve businesses, which are made up of people. I assume you mean the less wealthy, who once again are less able to pay higher rates. Its economics and the only way you can change it is through government and taxes, which throws economics out the window. Or charity, but that is voluntary of course.

Matt January 20, 2016, 3:23 pm.

I mostly agree with you.

But implicit in your rationale (which I find no real fault in, in practical terms) is the idea that “if you can’t beat ’em, join ’em.” Again, in purely economic terms, that rationale makes perfect sense (or cents…money puns, yayyy).

And you are correct in your assessment that the only way to change the value of those fields would be through large scale governmental reform (which, I’m sure you would agree, would receive major opposition from corporate interests who massively benefit from the status quo).

But my larger point is that its pretty cruel to expect an 18 or 19 year old kid to have a sound understanding of American corporate capitalism. Those who choose a life of service are likely to learn their harsh economic fate long after they have committed financially to their cause. Many of them probably find their way to this blog long after that realization. They likely have a greater appreciation of the devastating effects of poverty, because they see it on a daily basis. Someone who’s job is to secure corporate profits is not as likely to experience that world. To berate those who serve when they are already down is not productive.

But I disagree with your last point. If you subscribe at all to the idea of democracy, or believe that a healthy society is one where citizens have agency over policy, then government does not “throw economics out the window,” but rather exists to protect the rights of all members equally, including the historically impoverished. Those regulations often feel restrictive to the “have’s” simply because it limits how deep into the pockets of the “have not’s” they can legally reach.

Regulations and economic controls that are designed to dampen the destructive effects of unfettered capitalism are not throwing economics out the window, they are just preventing capitalism from destroying itself.

benny January 21, 2016, 9:50 am.

This is a great point. Those that have chosen to be servants to the less fortunate in society will often times be meagerly compensated and not enjoy financial freedom as soon as they would like. We should greatly appreciate those who have chosen a life of service because the economy does not compensate them fairly.

kim March 14, 2016, 2:25 pm.

I want to write a book just so I can name it Flirting with poverty!

Justin January 14, 2016, 11:57 am.

FYI, Frugal Bazooka, social work is not a “liberal arts” degree. Social workers are usually masters-level professionals and can be licensed healthcare providers. They can diagnose and treat mental health disorders and get paid by insurance companies for this service. Social work is hard work that is not valued much by our society (see: your comment) because the “customers” are often poor and marginalized. I agree that the original poster is complaining and that that’s not helpful, but as a social worker myself, I want to counter your characterization of her profession.

Miranda January 14, 2016, 12:31 pm.

Obrigado. I have my master’s degree in social work. Depending on the state you are in it then takes another 2-5 years to get your clinical license, years spent working full time, doing supervision, and maybe taking more required classes. I love social work and I knew what I was getting in to. It’s not an easy field, but a very necessary one. We have a major shortage of social workers in this county because so many people write them off (until they need one) and so many others are unwilling or unable to do the job.

Miranda January 14, 2016, 12:32 pm.

Not to mention the years of unpaid internships that are required to graduate.

Frugal Bazooka January 14, 2016, 2:58 pm.

I appreciate your comments however I think you’re projecting a bit here. I am not characterizing a particular profession in any way, I’m alluding to the fact that many people chose relative easy majors in college that do not lead to a well paying job. They know this when they chose to focus on the social sciences or arts. I have no problem with following your heart and loving your job, but I do have a problem with complaining about it later.

And how do I know about these choices people make in college? Because I was one of those kids who ignored the reality of what kind of job my degree would garner and followed my heart.

I ended up busting my ass after college starting a business to make up for my lack of marketable skills, but I refuse to blame the system or the lack of appreciation for my particular degree for my financial problems out of college. The blame was unequivocally mine.

Justin January 14, 2016, 3:07 pm.

Thanks for the response; I understood your comment as referring specifically to the original poster’s academic decision, lumping SW in with Philosophy, English, Sociology degrees, etc., and so that’s where I was coming from. I generally agree with you about unmarketable bachelors degrees. In fact, I got one too, and had to go back to grad school and get an MSW which turned out to be much more marketable (see my comment down below).

Matt K January 14, 2016, 6:57 pm.

12 hour days is what a big law associate puts in on a Saturday or Sunday…at least that’s my perception as a former Big 4 CPA. We out in solid hours for a lot less than Anita but we also only have simple Bachelors degrees and often no debt (at least in my lucky case). Bonus, the demand for beancounters is high as evidenced by my own fortune of getting a Big 4 offer on the eve of the great recession (summer 2007) and still getting raises and promotions since then.

Christina January 20, 2016, 5:10 pm.

Um, settle down there Frugal Bazooka! I think Anita was right when she said she got that job because of luck. Lots and lots of people out there are smart, work hard, get a law degree and are either still looking for a job or making way less than 100K. For example, I graduated from a top 50 law school in 2007, my first job paid 41K per year, and I currently work for a private firm in Hawaii doing class action work where my salary is, wait for it…64K per year. Needless to say, the law loans are still in the picture.

It’s nice to here Anita’s story, and I’m glad she is so awesome! But the reality is that the circumstances that made that possible applies to approximately 1% of the population.

Nathan January 13, 2016, 10:52 am.

You’ve got to get more creative. Find additional work. Find it thinking “I’ll do this extra for six months.” Do something that is completely different than social work, and you will find the additional work is actually energizing compared to draining. While I was in undergraduate, I worked three different jobs at one time (waiter at two different pubs and a gas station clerk). I found I was more energized than when I worked only one job. I was more focused on the tasks at hand (i. e., school work, getting good sleep and food), and I partied a lot less. It was a transcendental moment, where everything coalesced for me (I started paying off college loans before even finishing). Granted, I had the cheapest rent ever and no dependents. In the end, it is all about finding opportunities, and some of these opportunities will pay enormous dividends. Work extra now will pay dividends latter. So get creative and find those opportunities. Boa sorte.

MyFrugalChicago January 13, 2016, 11:21 am.

Not to be “that guy”, but you knew this when you picked your career, right? Your salary is in the range suggested by Salary. gov.

When I went to college, I picked a salary that had a median pay of about 100k. I now make 150k.

I am sure you benefit the world more, which is awesome… my goal was to be able to make enough money and be comfortable. Pros and cons to all careers…

Kevin January 13, 2016, 3:31 pm.

You’re right, but I understand Krystal’s feelings too.

The “anyone can do it” message sometimes clashes with stories of how successful people who are many standard deviations above the mean are. It can end up being more of a bummer when it is supposed to be inspirational.

The advice is universal which is good, but you’re probably not gonna get MMM or Anita like results unless you’re making 3 times the median household income like they are.

This has been my general sentiment in reading MMM articles. I love them and I think people love to hear that they can do anything. But I also think that not everyone is so smart, so educated, or so privileged. Given , MMM knows he’s privileged. The fact remains though, median wage workers won’t see the same kind of ‘stash growth unless they find a way to make more. And what’s the most accessible way to make more? Education which inevitably means debt. If you didn’t go to college straight out of high school like most of the early retirees we’ve seen, or worse you had kids, then you’re even further behind. So I think the message is incredibly inspiring, but sometimes it stretches the boundaries of reason.

Derek January 21, 2016, 6:20 am.

Obrigado por isso! I was going to say, we are all adults and are responsible for the decisions we make in terms of career/pay/etc..

I have a great deal of respect for people that choose to take a lower salary for what they love doing or to have a great impact on the good of society. We know that money isn’t everything – and these people really prove it.

I make six-figures and often find myself wondering if I “sold-out” into a profession that I’m not 100% happy with. The good thing with all of this (and it’s what MMM teaches) is that you are 100% in control of all of this. If you’re in a job that doesn’t pay what you’d like, you can always go back to school, find a mentor, start a side-business, or simply try and find another job in the same field that pays more. Don’t fall into the mental trap that you’re stuck.

Stephen January 13, 2016, 11:33 am.

The fact that $160,000/year is not a reality for you (it isn’t for me at this point in my life either) isn’t terribly important. Everyone’s situation is unique and all you can do is make the best of your own. Dismissing her story as just a “special case” only distracts you from doing what is necessary to reach the same goal. It may take you (and I) longer, but that doesn’t make it an impossible dream.

Well said, Stephen!

Also, income doesn’t have to be stagnant either. You can get promoted, go back to school, change jobs, start a side hobby/business (or many), etc.

Jessica January 15, 2016, 4:44 pm.

Pode ser feito. I was making $55k base and up to $15k in bonus. At 30 I had a baby, read this blog and switched careers inspired by what I read here. 3 years later I now work less and am making $90k base with bonus expected as $10-15k. All with a BA in Psych, a throw away degree and totally unrelated to what I am doing now. I applied for jobs without regard to the education requirements but with a kickass cover letter because one recruiter once told me job requirements are just guidelines to get out the totally unqualified. My on the field experience and life experience made me qualified for what I do now. So a high income can be done with imagination (how do your skills translate) and persistence. We expect 5 more years working and will “retire” about 40. Which is still a pretty sweet deal!

Deb January 20, 2016, 10:34 am.

I’d love to hear more about your previous job, what your new job is, and how you translated your skills to the new job. I’ve been trying to figure out how to make my skills translate, but I’m just not sure where to start. Also, I think I suffer from the “imposter syndrome” referenced in the article, but it strikes before I even submit an application.

I have a marketable degree (marketing major with minor in econ), but I realized at the end that I just couldn’t see myself working in that field (and thus never did). So I have the degree, but not the “real world” experience, and I’m trying to figure out new directions.

Kathy Abell January 21, 2016, 6:18 pm.

I’m wondering whether or not women are more subject to imposter syndrome than men are? No matter how successful a woman becomes (in whatever way that woman measures her success), it seems she always tends to think, “when will they find out I don’t really belong here (or deserve this)?” I don’t think most successful men have these thoughts.

In my case, it took me a long time to come to grips with the idea that yes, I was the expert (in my very niche area) and what a surprise that was to me when I finally figured it out. RI MUITO.

Jessica February 8, 2016, 5:26 pm.

Sorry, I just thought to look if there were any follow up comments. If I were you I’d talk to a head hunter and even the forum section of this site for ideas. Also I spent about 6 hours a week applying to 3 or 4 jobs a week. I fine tuned my resume to each job. I disregarded requirements for experience/school if it looked like I could do the job. It took about 3 months each time and resulted in very few interviews, but it only takes 1 job. My evolution was psych BA to event manager to office/facility manager who handled renovation projects to now project manager who handles facility’s. The event manager customer service is what most interviewers loved. I have great stories about “fires” I put out and how to deliver excellent customer service in the face of controversy. There are so many niche fields, just go on Indeed and start exploring. Some jobs want you to answer certain questions essay style which really helped me refine over and over that cover letter. Boa sorte.

EMML January 14, 2016, 9:12 am.

Actually, it is important. The vast majority of people will never make anywhere near that salary in their lifetime. That makes it unrelatable, even if this lady seems like a really great person who would be cool to hang out with. I’d like to see more stories about how people can do this on a $40k salary, because that is the reality for most of us.

MrFrugalChicago January 14, 2016, 9:17 am.

Why is it a reality? Make changes so it isn’t. That is like saying “I am overweight by 100 pounds. Why do we have all these articles about doing physical activities? The real people in the world are also 100 pounds overweight. Make more articles about us.”. No just like you can lose weight, you can make more money. MMM had a good post of careers that pay well with limited school costs. Try one of those.

There are two sides to the savings equation – income and expenses. You would be foolish to not work both. Who cares how frugal you are if you make 10k a year? Or who cares if you make 500k a year if you spend 499k. You need to work both.

EMML January 14, 2016, 9:22 am.

Do you want the masses to be mustachian, or just the elite few who have figured out how to make in the top 5-10% of the salaries in the US?

brett January 14, 2016, 11:43 am.

People take it upon themselves to create blogs and start dispensing vast amounts of knowledge and advice only to get nitpicked in the comments. It gets old.

People need to remind themselves… it’s a free blog. There are tons of great articles on this blog containing vast amounts of information that can be used by people of all sorts of income levels. Glean what useful info you can and move on. If you see a gap, fill it. Create a blog and write for that audience.

Another thing to consider. Maybe he’s not writing for you. Maybe you’ll tell your kid or niece about all this early retirement stuff. Maybe they’ll choose a lucrative career path and they’ll be the ones to retire after 5-10 years.

EMML January 15, 2016, 1:40 pm.

I’ve read this entire blog, and I seem to remember that MMM wanted to change the world. I would like to see him succeed. In order to really do that, he needs to reach people a little farther down the food chain. It’s really a numbers game–there’s just a ton more people there. If he’s happy just reaching engineers/professionals and the like, that is his prerogative, but it runs counter to his stated goals.

(I actually have started a blog of my own, but I’m not there yet, and my career is currently on pause. I also have taken a more unusual path, so probably not quite so relatable to the masses either. Since this seems to be a gathering place for like-minded folks, I’d love to hear the stories of those that are closer to my family’s current income level. Several have been mentioned in the comments, so let’s hear more! Is that really too much to ask?)

Aaron January 26, 2016, 11:16 am.

Check the forums if you want to find more current and relatable material right now. MMM is writing from his experiences and from those of guest speakers/writers. Some past stories have been much lower income. But it’s not a bad idea to ask for more main articles that deal with success stories with lower income. They do exist, and they have been written (not sure how precisely they fit into what you are looking for though).

In just about every article MMM talks about forging your own path, making it work for you, modifying as needed. He’s more about waking people up who are asleep to the fact that they have the power to make changes to their lives. He is more about guidelines (drive less, bike more) and thought processes (be happy with what you have, want less) than establishing a specific plan (he’s not proposing to get a $160k a year job to retire early).

darkadams00 January 14, 2016, 10:25 am.

“Unrelatable” with respect to time–yes. “Unrelatable” with respect to outcome–no. I was making $22k in early adulthood. I went back to school for a completely new field, went on to grad school, and shortly thereafter saw my first $100k year with income continuing to climb on a pretty rapid clip. Hard work–studying and working almost full time? Heck yes. But it was worth it to me.

If that level of time/work investment is not worth it or the resulting job is not worth it, then one should readjust his/her “wanter” to align with his/her “getter.” In the worst case scenario, plot out exactly how long it would take to get the ole ‘stache large enough to retire if living efficiently. I’m certain it will be closer to the 4 years than the typical 40 years for most–even at the median wage.

EMML January 14, 2016, 7:00 pm.

I also went back to get a 2nd degree in a much more lucrative field. I worked hard and did awesome. Then some shit happened. Some real life and death shit. So, instead of being constantly reminded of what I am currently prevented from doing (the very thing that is causing much distress), it would be a hell of a lot more motivational to see others that make it work with what is currently available to me.

(Even with the shitty salary/degree, I managed to save at a healthy rate. I don’t expect to ER in 5 years, as I’m already 15 in. I just hope to have ER still within reach.)

Stephen January 14, 2016, 1:00 pm.

For what it’s worth, I’m well within the “most of us” category you mentioned.

I make little more than $40k (actually less than that after taxes). Even still, I’m closing in on a 40% savings rate while living in California (without feeling at all deprived). I do so using a similar mindset to what Thriftygal outlined in the interview: paying down what debt I had aggressively, not spending ridiculously, and investing wisely.

So while I’ll likely never make $160k/year, I found her story totally relatable. Sure, the high salary accelerated her path, but in my opinion, the important parts of the story were not the salary, but the choices she made to make the best of her situation. People earning less can still make similar decisions to make the most of their own situation.

greg January 24, 2016, 9:45 pm.

& gt; The vast majority of people will never make anywhere near that salary in their lifetime.

that’s true, but I think the general point of the blog still stands — saving 50% of the median household income of $52,000 can be within reach of many (not “all”, and perhaps not “most”). Saving 35% still has amazing results compared to the typical 5% or less for such a salary range (and things get even more ridiculous when income rises above $70,000 and the savings rate doesn’t change).

I think there’s a good balance of contentedness with less and striving for more that hinges on the qualities of each side: embrace growth frugality brings if done “properly”, and use that real progress as a lesson and inspiration for doing and achieving more!

Yarrow January 14, 2016, 5:36 pm.

Exatamente! I have been pretty disabled since my 40’s, and my partner after working part time for some years, started her own business 16 years ago and just this year raised her pay to 50,000. Nós.

Have no debts and own our home and cars. Two years ago we did a spread sheet after I noticed that our checking account kept getting higher balances and I wanted to know why. It turned out that we were (and are) living on half of our income. I receive 12,000 a year from forced retirement.

I bake bread, make salad dressing, and make granola. We cook from scratch using almost no canned goods. After checking the USDA, I checked and discovered that our food bills are as what they think is very restricted. And we eat great! Even with a smaller income choices can be made that build wealth more slowly than the woman in the story in the story but do over time make a huge difference.

tcmJOE January 13, 2016, 11:52 am.

I think amateurearthling/2014/12/14/buy-yourself-out/ may be relevant–even at low income, if you can* live efficiently there are still many possibilities to save. Perhaps you might not retire in 10 years, but you could start to reach a point where you have some decent degree of financial independence, even if not fully.

My financee is dealing with a fair amount debt from a MSW and IMO it strikes me as a bit of a racket, though if this is something you want to do for your own personal growth this is something to consider. It did align with her professional goals and we’re going to work hard together to knock the debt down, but if you can do without I might suggest doing so.

*You may find yourself in cases, e. g. dealing with health issues, where this is difficult. If there are your particular circumstances my condolences.

MyName January 13, 2016, 1:21 pm.

I would consider a career move from social work to something else. One very ambitious hard working woman I know moved from being a social worker to becoming a physician’s assistant and started making far more than $160’000. She’s now a medical director at a clinic and works part time at two other place and makes over $300k.

If you have a great passion for social work, you could come back to it once your financially independent.

Eu concordo & # 8211; not all jobs pay equal to their value to society, so it’s worth factoring that in if your goal is earning more money. Switching fields could be a lot more efficient than spending more on education to advance a tiny amount up the income scale.

As an off-the-wall example, last year Mrs. MM started an Etsy shop on a whim (something like her fifth hobby occupation since retiring from software/management). Even that online store, which involves her occasionally sitting at a table at home making bracelets and necklaces, earns more than $30,000 and could easily reach $75k if she did it full time or $100+ if she brought in an employee.

I’ll cover this in a future case study article if she allows it (she is currently very hesitant).

Katherine January 13, 2016, 3:34 pm.

I definitely sympathize with @Krystal and understand where she’s coming from. As someone with a master’s in social science (sociology), I have definitely felt under appreciated and underpaid–when I could find a job at all! I don’t think it’s quite fair to argue that “she knew what she was getting into” by going into social work. Not all of us (who are lucky enough to find a job) can bear the corporate environment for long enough to retire early! (I am currently trying, but don’t know how long I can last.) It is often disheartening for the majority of us who make meager salaries to hear of those making $100K off the bat. But I do think it’s important to look at side jobs and opportunities as others have mentioned. The trick is in finding those side jobs…

@Mr. MoneyMustache – I’d love to hear about how your wife made $30,000 (a year?) by selling bracelets on Etsy! That seems like a lot for an Etsy shop…?! I previously had an Etsy shop and only sold one necklace. :) I’d love to hear more about it!

John January 16, 2016, 11:56 am.

I’d also like to hear Ms. MM’s story of Etsy. As someone who is having trouble making $1/hour on Etsy, it would be good to hear how it is done and to get some inspiration.

greg wolf January 13, 2016, 9:04 pm.

Love MMM. Big fan of this blog. I have my kids read it. Naturally, I bum out every time a drug reference is made. Not the healthiest thing to promote, and it’s illegal in all the other states. Nothing slams the brakes on a bright, pre-early retirement career like a drug bust on your record. Not to be preachy. Just saying.

Sorry Greg, I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here. My thoughts are that Marijuana is by far the healthiest of the recreational drugs and is way, way better for you than a beer or a soda at the end of the day. On top of that, it’s far cheaper per serving than even boxed wine and has spectacular benefits for creative people and social bonding.

It is also not reserved for dropouts and low-achievers: you’ll find it circulating at most parties of wealthy business gurus in their 30s and 40s (in the Western half of the country, at least!)

Do you have much personal experience with the plant?

It is partially legal in 23 states and fully legal for recreational use in 4 states so far. Although it is readily available in every state, any prohibition of it is completely batshit crazy in my opinion, to the extent that I wouldn’t live in a place where it is considered criminal, or work at a company where its use was discouraged.

More on my article coming on 4/20 called “The economics of recreational marijuana” ;-)

For the first time in my life, I’m excited for 4/20!

And I’m surprised (pleasantly) that you hold that opinion, MMM! I don’t smoke anything, but I think US drug laws are almost as embarrassing a habit as our clown car habit. We spend so much money on and ruin so many lives in trying to prohibit one of the least harmful things you can out into your body other than food and water – and we could be taxing the stuff instead, using the money to help fight actual crime!

Marie January 19, 2016, 10:41 am.

Oh man, I would love to read this. I think that how insanely good the cost/benefit ratio is is such an amazing unsung thing about marijuana.

Matt January 25, 2016, 9:51 am.

I’m not agreeing with the policy, but I think it’s important to point out that statements like “It is partially legal in 23 states and fully legal for recreational use in 4 states so far.” Aren’t technically true. Recreational marijuana use is very much against federal law in every state (Controlled Substances Act). Federal law trumps state law. In fact, a couple of states have already sued Colorado on this issue and it is in the Supreme Court right now.

It’s the difference between something being “legal” and a state deciding not to enforce federal law. So technically, you do live in a place where it is considered “criminal.” But, are lucky enough to live in a place that – smartly - does not act on it.

James January 26, 2016, 4:51 am.

All I can say is what a waste of tax payer money. If the people of the state voted for it, the feds need to leave it alone.

MMM I agree that weed should be legal. However: As one that promotes a life without needless spending, it is surprising you smoke. Is this the one vice of MMM? Like a gambler or a shopoholic? Being MMM I am sure you have weighed the costs of weed vs retirement living.

At $20/oz I think I will wait till I can grow it in the ditch out back. Then maybe its benefits will out weigh the cost on my retirement plans. :)

James, I don’t promote (or live) a life without needless spending. The best I can do is “slightly less ridiculous than average”. This still leaves MOST of my family budget being spent on luxuries including a fancy house, 2 cars, high-end food, international travel, beer and wine, a couple of $40 bottles of scotch per year and about $25 of marijuana products which is more than enough to share around.

Also, one of the best things we can do to change laws we disagree with is to conscientiously and publicly defy them. The damned fools suing each other over this issue need to be both voted out of office and told to fuck off.

Mixed Bag April 7, 2016, 10:38 am.

For your 4/20 post, can you discuss the potential drawbacks? As someone whose attitude to marijuana was live and let live, and yeah it should be legal, I was surprised to watch a television show where there is a percentage of the population who are susceptible to psychotic effects, some having now lifelong mental health issues. I don’t remember the details of the whole episode fully, but apparently, the marijuana of yesteryear is not the marijuana of today. The naturally grown stuff had the fun-get-you-feeling-good chemical in balance with the prevent-the-feelgood-chemical-from-giving - you-psychosis-for - life chemical, so that normal marijuana was fairly innocuous. Apparently the newer bred stuff, with higher concentrations of the feelgood chemical, is way out of balance with the protect-you chemical, leaving some users – sometimes first time users! & # 8211; with lifelong issues. Please do explore this for your 4/20 post. Even if you find what I’ve posted discredited by reputable sources, I’d be happy to read it, as it would address the concerns.

Matt K January 14, 2016, 7:10 pm.

Um homem! My wife is an elementary school teacher and makes less than 1/3 of my salary as a corporate accountant. I’m not particularly religious but I’m not ashamed to say that she does God’s work (not you Mr. Blankfein!). The stories she comes home. e with make me both laugh and cry sometimes at the same time. She makes a tremendous difference in the world while I generate a lot of paper and move a lot of money around (sort of). If I got hit by a bus, my business would be just fine. At any rate, we decided that my job will advance us towards FI while hers contributes to society. I’m OK with the compromise even though it means more than 4 extra years of work.

Becky January 18, 2016, 10:38 am.

I would also love to hear some tips from Mrs. MM’s Etsy experience. Even if she would rather not share specifics, I know both of you are really good at finding ways to optimize the work you do to provide a return that is worth the time you put in. That is what I am most interested in as so often, many of the Etsy stories I hear are about sellers who put in. many hours for little profit, and I want to avoid that mindset. I currently manage rental property outside my “day job”, so am somewhat used to managing a “small business”. In the last few months, I’ve started researching making/selling a product, and am getting more and more excited about the idea, so an inspirational article like this would be perfect timing!

Deb January 20, 2016, 11:05 am.

Add me to the list of those who’d love to hear more about Mrs. MMM’s Etsy business. I, too, skip from hobby to hobby, and even had a jewelry shop set up for a short time. But I found myself without enough time to generate enough product and set up and market a successful shop. I sold a few things, but never even came close to what she’s pulling in.

I’m interested in hearing how she chose her product line and suppliers, how much labor she puts into producing the products, how she came up with a pricing formula, and how she markets her shop.

Sherri January 24, 2016, 1:28 pm.

I would also be very interested in details on Mrs. MM’s Etsy shop.

Cristie January 13, 2016, 3:46 pm.

If you love social work but want to make more/additional money, your skill set is very applicable to life coaching. I’m a mental health epidemiologist who went into coaching as a side business because I missed working with people and after 2 years I now have more clients than I can handle. I bill at 125$ an hour (close to my hourly for my research work) and will probably transition to full time coaching in a few years so I don’t have to put in the 40-60 hours that I put in as a salaried epidemiologist and I can step away from the bureaucracy and constant begging for an ever smaller portion of the research pie.

Mable January 13, 2016, 7:51 pm.

I am an MSW. After graduating, I moved to rural Alaska, where the wages are higher and in the small villages there is only one general store so no place to waste your money unless you are addicted to internet shopping. Within four years of graduating I was making $110,000. Took in two roommates, we all bulk ordered food together. Left after 10 years with over half a million in the bank. I now live in a cheaper place and work part time—married someone with the same mentality and he, too, works about 15 hours a week. He came itno the marriage with over $200,000 in the bank. We now live on our combined part time salaries and his and my money are growing in investments. We could retire now but like working part time—I work in an art gallery and love it and he works in a plumbing store where he really likes talking about pipes and stuff (no accounting for taste!) You can do it. Stop whining and just make the sacrifices you need to for the next decade. Or else do nothing but whine and end up working until you are 65, having heard the same client stories over and over for 40 years.

Alaska49 January 16, 2016, 1:06 pm.

Wow, another rural AK person! Lived as a kid and taught there too. I know what you mean about the bulk food ordering. My wife would make a huge list and then we would hit Costco, Sam, s , Fred’s and then box it all up and send it out. The fun part was trying to remember what box had which particular item. I was in the Nome and Kotzebue area. Northern Lights, Iditarod, clear cold nights, those were great years.

Mable January 18, 2016, 1:05 pm.

Hey, Alaska 49, ever ask relatives who asked what you wanted for Christmas to send cases of toilet paper? My worst food memory was finding Shredded Wheat for sale for 50 cents a box!! The Barrow store had 96 boxes and we bought all of them. It took us almost three years to eat all of them (and they do go stale!) with powdered milk because regular milk was over $7 a gallon…I don’t think we ate Shredded Wheat again for about five years after we moved to Haines. And we have never used powdered milk again!

Sarah January 13, 2016, 8:15 pm.

Krystal–I’m a social worker too. Come to California, and you can make $60k-$80k+/year with an MSW. Cost of living may be higher than where you live, but it’s still possible to live very cheaply here.

Anonymous January 14, 2016, 12:25 am.

Seems like there’s an article that MMM ought to write, on “how to maximize the good you do in the world by choosing a high-paying career”.

Which career path will do more net good for the world:

& # 8211; Spending 30-40 years doing work that directly helps people but only ever making just enough to make ends meet (retiring a bit earlier than the norm through advanced Mustachian habits, but not in your 30s).

& # 8211; Making a six-figure salary doing work you find perhaps somewhat less fulfilling, and then either retiring early and spending your leisure time on direct charitable work with the support of your retirement, or building up enough money to start your own charitable foundation or donate massively to several others.

The same argument on a smaller scale: you can go volunteer at a soup kitchen, or you can work a job that lets you donate money to feed a hundred times as many people. The former may provide you with some amount of personal fulfillment or enjoyment, or help you learn about some specific problem, but if you’re trying to maximize the good you can do for the world, do what makes money and then be incredibly charitable.

Jeff January 14, 2016, 7:27 am.

This is something I’ve always kind of promised myself I’d do post-retirement. Like MMM, I have a penchant for home renovations so I’ve been mulling over the idea of making incredibly energy efficient rental properties that cost the occupants practically nothing in utilities and then renting them at regular market rates. Help some people out and the environment.

MegMustache January 15, 2016, 8:50 am.

Oooo Do this! Do this! It makes my green heart thump!

Frugal Bazooka January 14, 2016, 10:36 am.

This is a great point Anon – society, the media etc seem to have diminished the simple value of being prosperous. Making large amounts of money and taking care of your family in a way that allows them a level of future comfort and success is not a social evil, it’s a huge social good and should be extolled and rewarded. How that got lost in the current socio-economic discussion is beyond my comprehension. Ironically, if a celebrity, artist or certain politician makes massive amounts of money there’s a whole other value system applied.

Wilson January 15, 2016, 11:52 am.

I agree it’s not an evil but I’d be hesitant before calling it a social good. Eu não concordo. One could argue that handing your kids financial comfort is more likely to turn them into self-centered d-bags than independent, striving young go-getters. Too much comfort will sap motivation and can lead to ruined potential. There’s a reason Warren Buffett is giving away the vast majority of his wealth and not passing it all through his several generations and many offspring. (Also see: Hilton, Paris).

Frugal Bazooka January 17, 2016, 3:13 am.

You may have misunderstood my post. Note that I said “a level” of comfort and success. I’m well aware of the problems of having trust fund babies waste their vast potential on recreational drugs due to the lack of life challenges.

On the other hand a hard working owner of a plumbing business should be applauded for being able to provide his family with more than the first 3 levels of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs.

More and more the media castigates and belittles the success of those in society who are able to rise above the middle class either by working harder or working smarter. You’d be shocked how many people loathe websites like this due those very kinds of feelings towards the positive financial efforts of average folks.

jonathan January 29, 2016, 12:40 am.

I had a friend that was living off government subsidies and volunteering in the health care system. I hinted that they should do it for pay and donate half to charity dropping tax to nill and provide a better life style for their children.

Justin January 14, 2016, 11:48 am.

I’ve been following MMM for several years, and this is the first time I’ve felt compelled to write a comment! Social workers CAN retire early. I am a social worker (MSW) and getting the degree was the BEST career decision I’ve made.

I am set to retire in about 4-5 years, which will be about 10 years after graduation. I worked in an agency setting for about 3 years, then opened a private practice, where I am my own boss and run my own business. In private practice you can make more than you might in an agency setting. Running a business is hard work but I already feel semi-retired because I am in charge of my life and can set my own schedule (never thought I’d be a business owner, but it has been a really good “growth” experience). Meanwhile, my family continues to live frugally and save a lot of what we bring in. When I retire I’ll be about 40, and can, if I choose, continue to see clients in my practice (I just won’t need to see them); get a job in a social service agency getting a small salary and doing something new and rewarding related to my training; get political and advocate for higher salaries for social workers (which I think is needed); read books all day; or venture off and do new things.

In sum, we don’t have to feel sorry for ourselves as social workers. I know that’s part of the culture of our field but we are not martyrs; we can take care of ourselves and do good work for others. I don’t think everyone should go into social work, but I would be sad if someone were to read these comments and decide against going into the field even though they felt drawn to it.

Kapitalust January 14, 2016, 1:12 pm.

Right or wrong, society places a monetary value on services. Some services provide more money (law) than others (social work).

It’s much more productive to figure out what the services society wants and pays more money for than complaining about how the current service we are providing does not pay as much as some other service.

I mean, to use an extreme example to make my point: Justin Bieber – love him or hate him – gets paid a bajillion dollars a year because he is providing a service that a lot of people are willing to fork over their money for.

I *personally* find it insane, but my personal perspective on what I *think* society needs and should want is very, very different from what society actually needs and wants.

Figure out what services society needs and wants, and go sell it to them. Then you will make more money.

Frugal Bazooka January 14, 2016, 3:09 pm.

Ótimo post. The one variable you’re leaving out is there is only one person – at least to his fans – that can supply what Beaver gives to the kids. When you’re talking about showbiz the rewards are always going to be upside down and unexplainable. What i find interesting is the same people who absolutely hate a corporation or CEO that actually provides thousands of jobs gives a total pass to a narcissistic movie star, athlete or reality star who cares for no one but themselves. Figure that one out.

Acroy January 14, 2016, 1:18 pm.

JR January 14, 2016, 6:22 pm.

My wife earned even less when she only had a BSW. She went back to college and earned her MSW a couple years ago (cost $20k total over two years at the local state university which we were able to pay cash for) and now earns almost $70k per year doing clinical work. Honestly, I never realized that social workers could earn that kind of money.

Pennsylvania in case it matters.

phred January 15, 2016, 11:40 am.

a quick scan on Google shows many social workers at the $100k mark once they go into private practice.

Brian January 22, 2016, 8:35 am.

Hey, a fellow social worker! Ugh. Got my masters and state license, reeeeally lucky to be slaving away at 40k while being a touch under 100k in debt. I never thought about money because I wanted to help people. Now I’m burning out and thinking about money constantly haha. I discovered this blog a month ago and binge read all the posts, now I have a plan to kill off all loans not covered by the PSLF program and start investing after that. I still have plenty of days where I feel that deep regret but now I feel hopeful for the first time in awhile. Our low salaries and crap conditions will make our successes that much more satisfying!

Cococo February 29, 2016, 12:38 pm.

Do you have your social work degree? If you do then the UK and Australia are always looking for SWs and will sponsor visas. In London you can make £30 ($45) an hour. Cost of living is a little higher but not much. London is desperate for qualified workers willing to do child protection, jobs are easy to get.

EL January 13, 2016, 10:25 am.

This is a great story and of course in line with many people who actually understand FI. She bikes to work in Chicago and it is fun for her, that is awesome. (Its freaking cold in the windy city) Even though she had a high income, she didn’t fall prey to over consumption which is the only way to really win the battle of money efficiency. Good job and good luck FI lawyer gal.

hypertrichosis January 13, 2016, 10:49 am.

So wait, out of all the people to stay with in Chicago, you ended up with another smart, good-looking Indian girl? hmmmm…

Thias January 13, 2016, 10:56 am.

Isso é incrível! And it just feels so unusual for her profession. We have all met numerous lawyers who always seem to be high spenders. It is great to see someone who proves that you don’t need to spend like your profession often tries to dictate to be successful. Amazing job Thrifty Gal! Congrats and enjoy your tour seeing the world!

Daniel Zehner January 13, 2016, 10:58 am.

I’m really trying not to have the attitude of “of course she could retire early, she’s maknig $160k a year and can save a LOT quickly!” but it’s very hard. Do you have interviews with people who also were able to find this type of freedom making say, $60k/yr with a spouse making $40kish/yr with kids? That would be awesome to hear a story like that!

Good on our lawyer friend for bucking the trend of her peers though! Resisting that type of peer pressure is no small feat, even with such a high income to back it up.

Yeah, this example is extreme ($160k was only her STARTING salary!) and that’s part of the point – an extreme income should result in very quick financial independence rather than just an extremely large house.

For normal people efficient living still works, and I’d argue it is even more important because it can mean the difference between abundance, and stress/debt and wondering how you’ll pay for food for your own kids. Here’s an example using two teachers: mrmoneymustache/2011/09/17/the-race-to-retirement-revisited/

Just don’t get fixated on the “FIVE YEARS TO RETIREMENT” part of it. Even Mr. Money Mustache had to work almost 10 :-)

Daniel Zehner January 13, 2016, 11:38 am.

Obrigado! That’s just what I was after! I forgot about that article. :) Still working my side hustles as a furniture maker and engineering consultant while holding down my day job to put extra sheckles aside for earlier than normal retirement. :)

Totally agree with your second statement. Since my wife and I overhauled our finances last year, we’ve gone from being in debt and having lots of “oh crap how are we going to make this work?” moments to “whoops, we over spent in this area this month, but because we’ve been saving a lot we’re still on track.”

Thanks again for the great inspiration and advice you put out here and for not coming down too hard on those of us who don’t quite take it to the extreme and are ok with doing that. :)

Mrs. Healthywealth January 14, 2016, 9:38 pm.

Grateful you posted this. My mom made $350000/yr for the past 20 plus years, and has roughly $120k in retirement account to show for it. Thank goodness for social security. But, she can’t retire and she’s in her 70s. So yes you can make a shit ton of money, but if you don’t save it, you’re screwed. She still can’t understand why I sold my Mercedes. sigh.

Megan January 19, 2016, 2:41 pm.

I think the story of how she spent all that money is probably more awe-inducing than how this lady retired as early as she did. What kind of childhood did you have, by chance?

Megan January 19, 2016, 2:41 pm.

I think the story of how she spent all that money is probably more awe-inducing than how this lady retired as early as she did. What kind of childhood did you have, out of curiosity?

Winnipeg dude January 14, 2016, 9:49 pm.

My wife and I tackeled almost the same situation when our daughter was born 5 years ago. We made the decision to drop from 2 70k a year salaries to one, allowing my wife to stay home with our daughter for the first few years. Fast forward to now, my wife still hasn’t gone back to work as a teacher, and never will except for the occasional day of subbing to give her something to do. and we We chose to extend FI for a few more years, but I still plan to retire in 10/11 years, which none of my teacher coworkers believe is possible.

It’s all about understanding that buying stuff that you don’t really need comes at a price. If your household is 80k+ a year you can retire early, it will just take a few years longer than someone making 160k.

Iron Mike Sharpe January 14, 2016, 11:40 am.

Go to the forums and check out arebelspy. I think he and his wife were teachers and retired around 30.

JT January 15, 2016, 12:58 pm.

I worked less than four years full time (electrical engineer), my salary never exceeding 65k, and retired* before my 28th birthday. So yeah, it can be done.

*I still do some consulting work, typically less than two months a year, the profits from which I use to acquire cashflowing real estate. I could fund the acquisitions with private money from investors, but I like the consulting so I do it. As MMM has said often, you’re highly unlikely to NEVER AGAIN MAKE MONEY after you retire.

Megan January 19, 2016, 2:44 pm.

Great story! Did you set out with this goal from the beginning or was there a come-to-jesus moment early in your career? Working fewer than 4 years to get to retirement is pretty damn incredible.

Dathan January 27, 2016, 1:16 pm.

I am married and have a 5 year old son. My wife stays home, and I make about 90k / year. Although I am not ‘retired’ I do have what MMM calls FU money. I can tell you that once you reach a point where your finances no longer own you, your life gets much easier, and truthfully my job has gotten much better. B/c I was willing to walk away from my job I was able to negotiate a work from home strategy, which has allowed me additional time to work on my side business. Once my side business can cover the remaining balance I can ‘retire’ from my 9-5.

And for the record, my wife and I had over 65k in school loans and a couple cars. We chose to work hard, save hard, and now at 36 life is much much easier.

Espero que ajude.

superbien January 13, 2016, 11:09 am.

I love this post! Anita, you totally rock. What a level head you have, not getting caught up in other people’s default unthinking dreams. And good for you for not getting stuck in the language – are you early b retired, or on a sabbatical – who cares, if you’re pursuing things you enjoy that enrich you.

I also appreciate the candor. I love travel too, but it really can be lonely. Well, for me – I know other people enjoy a lot of alone time. I like that you set goals like learning to cook Indian food. That seems to be Go Curry Cracker’s approach too, take classes related to local languages and cooking, to keep stimulated and engaged.

I’ve been spending a lot of time lately imagining winning the $1.5 billion lottery… And honestly, a part of me thinks that I’d let it go and not claim it. I love the pride in my/our accomplishments, that were tyre result of hard work, sacrifice, lots of thought and discussion… Being handed money seems like it would be such a letdown. (plus all of the users crawling out of the woodwork)

Andres Salomon January 13, 2016, 11:17 am.

“Error establishing a database connection”

MMM, you crashed her server. :)

Dave January 13, 2016, 1:10 pm.

Google has most of it cached. Just put “cache:” in front of the address if you’re using chrome, or cache:thepowerofthrift into google itself.

Bob January 13, 2016, 11:18 am.

From all of these retirement and case study stories, I am mostly inspired to relocate to a country that does not steal 50% of my income. The problem is that I have no idea how(no foreign passport). What about making a post regarding that matter? Maybe you could shed some light on your journey, from Canada to the US. What was going through your mind? How did you set things in motion?

Yeah, I’ve been thinking about writing something like “How to move to another country”. But it keeps boiling down to “Do a bunch of online research on how to do it in your specific country”.

For Canada to the US, my path was “Apply to Jobs and earn job offers via interviews, use the TN visa to get 1-year work authorizations, upgrade this to the H1-B 3-year visa after being sure you have a job you like. Then apply for the permanent residence (aka the green card or I-485), wait a few more years, apply for citizenship, take the test and then you are now a citizen”. Took a total of 6 years and $10k of legal and government fees – not easy or cheap but very profitable and worthwhile!

In general, I think it’s good practice not to ask anybody how to do something without first spending at least an hour vigorously researching it yourself with just good old-fashioned Google searches alongside a document where you collate your findings and relevant links. Then when you do find an expert to ask, you are ready to discuss the more advanced points instead of bogging them down with stuff you could have found on Google.

Daniel Zehner January 13, 2016, 11:55 am.

Any chance your considering moving back to Canada depending on who is elected this November? ;)

No, but congratulations to you guys for finally electing a cool, youthful, non-evil Prime Minister. Definitely a step in the right direction.

JT January 15, 2016, 1:00 pm.

Geographical arbitrage is an wicked cool retirement strategy. I wish you would write a post on that, for a country like Nicaragua maybe.

OsloGal January 18, 2016, 6:08 am.

Sim! I’d love to read a post on relocating since I’m right in the middle of a move from Norway to the US. There are so many things to think about that all need to come together in a short period of time: finding a job, a place to live, mode of transport, moving your stuff, moving your money, living without a safety net of family and friends, adjusting to a new set of surroundings, and if it’s a move to the US; a whole landslide of paperwork.. The paperwork is straight forward enough after you research it, but navigating a new place and making mustachian choices feels harder.

My advice to anyone in a similar position; go to the MMM forums! I asked a general “what should I look out for in my situation?” after describing what I had planned and what my thoughts were. Luckily, some angelic soul in the forum saved me thousands of dollars by telling me about a little known tax trap: the currency exchange gain tax. Had I stuck to my plan of selling my apartment in Norway in the same year as I became a US tax payer, I would have started on this new adventure with debt to the IRS rather than as debt-free with a small cushion of savings. I did tons of online research prior to this, but would never even have dreamed that getting and paying back my Norwegian mortgage – in local currency – would be seen as a currency exchange transaction by the US.

MyName January 13, 2016, 1:31 pm.

It’s really about total take home pay. If somewhere has a %60 tax rate, but also will give you double the after tax income vs your current place with similar expenses, then does it matter?

Mark January 13, 2016, 2:42 pm.

Concordo. It’s also about the services you get for the taxes you pay. I generally believe in lower taxes because I think the U. S. wastes boatloads of our tax money (I think anyone can see this across the board, regardless of political ideology). But I hear there are at least a few high tax countries where they actually do spend taxpayer money efficiently.

Mable January 14, 2016, 9:29 pm.

Steal 50% of your income? STEAL? Do you use roads, schools, national parks? Will you call the police when someone robs you? Your “stolen” money funds those sorts of things and many, many more—it was government funding that first started internet, stopped thalidomide from poisoning American babies…the list is endless. Furthermore, I don’t know anyone who pays 50% of their income in taxes; if you do, either you or your accountant are incompetent. I am so tired of people acting like government is free, that democracy does not require some inefficiency to make sure that multiple interests are heard…whiner.

Winnipeg dude January 14, 2016, 9:59 pm.

The 50% rate that many people toss out is the tax that they are paying on the last few dollars of their income. In my province of Manitoba and if you make over 90k of income you are paying over 42% in income tax in any additionally earned income, but the taxes that you pay on the first 90k is significantly less. People love to look at the tax bracket that they are in and believe that all of their income is taxed at the same amount.

Of course this doesn’t include the 13% consumption tax that I pay on almost everything that I buy or the property taxes that I pay on my house or my contributions towards Employment Insurance, but I digress.

phred January 15, 2016, 11:37 am.

To do this you will have to renounce your (supposed) American citizenship as all income is taxable no matter where earned above the one year exclusion amount.

David Michael January 13, 2016, 11:20 am.

Ótimo post! Congratulations to Thrifty Gal. What I love about this new generation of 30 year olds is how they set up a goal to retire by 40 or less. Surpreendente! I’ll be 80 next year, and it seems that most of us in the Silent Generation just assumed we would work until age 65 or so. Refreshing to have this new consciousness aided by blogs like yours.

I retired over 20 years ago (age 57) living on about 30% of our working income because one of our planned income sources, a retirement annuity with the largest insurance company in California, went bankrupt (thanks to Michael Milken and the Junk Bond saga of 1990). In today’s drama, it would be equivalent to the financial meltdown of 2008 so well played out in the movie, “The Big Short”.

As a result, every five years or so, I return to work taking on interesting jobs for a a few years in different areas of the world, such as teaching ESL for four years in the Middle East. Presently, I am a wine ambassador and demo wine tastings several weekends a month to bring in added income for part of the year. On our seven years traveling around the USA full-time in our small motorhome, my wife and I took on seasonal jobs (three months) once a year like Amazon Fulfillment Centers (Christmas season). Even though I have three advanced degrees, I loved all of the different jobs and learned something from all of them. It forces me to keep sharp while taking on new challenges.

So…my message is that whether one retires at 30-40-50-60, there are so many ways to generate additional income to keep your dreams alive, provided one has no debt. But, having said that, it’s a heck of a lot easier to really, really save money and invest while one has the big salary. Getting paid at this age at $15 an hour vs. $100,000 a year during my professional career, makes a huge difference. Nonetheless, we have had a great retirement. Just about the time we get bored with traveling or volunteering, we take on another short term job that sounds interesting. Next one on the list is Costco for next year’s Holiday Season. There is no one way to retire successfully, regardless of age. In the end, we all share the same fate.

Danny January 13, 2016, 11:49 am.

As a former early retirement fanboy, I feel a bit like an imposter coming to this site because I quit my high paying job to follow my girlfriend to Hawaii, while just a 5th of the way to early retirement with no debt. I’m writing this from a coffee shop on an island in the middle of the Pacific. I cover my expenses with a combination of saved cash and occasional online tutoring gigs.

I plan on finding a remote job and recreating that high salary (still learning the new skills needed for a career change). It’s been hard and stressful at times. It’s not been all island paradise: there have definitely been moments of panic and regret, and you kind of forget about the beauty of the place as you go about your day-to-day activities. As a shy introvert, it’s hard making new friends. Also, I was making like $130k total compensation at my old place with a low cost of living and now I’ll be lucky to get $80k in my high COL area, starting over.

But do I regret it? Inferno. Não por que? Because this feels like for once, I’m actually living my life. I’m not waiting to live at undefined moment in the future: every stressful experience and feeling of panic makes me feel I’m doing the hard of growing as a person, and not watching the years fly by in a florescent box.

Seriously, that was the worst part of the corporate world for me: entering when you’re 25, and then looking up and seeing that you’re 28 in the blink of an eye and you haven’t grown or stretched your boundaries. I didn’t want to end hit 35 ready for retirement but with no experience getting outside my comfort zone or building the kind of life I really wanted.

I guess I’m trying to echo what you said previously: there are many great things you can do to live right NOW instead of grinding away at the job you hate – and you can still retire early. I know it may be controversial here, but you can apply frugal skills and learn how to be free.

Alec January 13, 2016, 1:57 pm.

Danny you just described my life in a fluorescent box and wondering how I’m almost 28 and not 24 anymore. I even have a stunning view of Grant Park and Lake Michigan right behind me but this environment prevents me from looking at it much. I think you just gave me permission to move to Hawaii. Obrigado. I better restructure and get out of here sooner than I had planned or I may wake up 35 tomorrow and still not be FI.

Danny January 13, 2016, 7:49 pm.

I think it’s pretty common, and I hear the effect of years flying by gets even more pronounced as you get older. Never put off living, as you may never have another chance. (IMHO, living simply and frugally is part of the way to live well).

Now I’m nearly 30 and the fact doesn’t bother me in the slightest. Where before I was like, “Shit, I’m 29 and still here?!” now I’m thinking “I’m 30 and on track to the kind of life I want.” Make sure you have your cash reserves, make sure you have a realistic plan, then buy the plane tickets. Make the leap. You can always come back to the corporate world, and at least if you go someplace cool and keep your skills up to date you can have a good story to tell future employers.

(If I had a chance to pick I’d choose someplace just as cool as but cheaper than Hawaii, but my girlfriend found a job here. :) )

Winnipeg dude January 14, 2016, 10:08 pm.

I so agree about making sure that you are truly enjoying your life as you save. If I kept at my corporate job that I landed when I graduated 15 years ago I might be retired by now, but instead I didn’t even last a year before deciding that making enough to survive and following your passions was more important. I lived the life of a ski bum for a few years and returned to school to become a teacher. I’ve so far been teaching for 10 years and will be for 10 more before I am FI, but I love my job, enjoy loads of time with my family and couldn’t imagine working in a job where I didn’t get 2 months off every summer. It’s about achieving a balance in life that works for you. The corporate world can suck the life out of you.

diana January 13, 2016, 12:58 pm.

David Michael - great story, thanks for sharing. Lots of jobs would be hard (and unlucrative) as a career, but very interesting for a short-term project. Someday I hope to realize my dream of working the early shift making donuts at one of San Francisco’s 24 hour donut shops. I just want to see what that’s about.

Matt January 13, 2016, 6:29 pm.

Better make it quick before they shut down the All-Star Donut shop on Market and Van Ness!

(architect living and working in SF, here…hoping to dig myself out of that 80k grad school student loan commitment I made as a 23 year old great recession undergraduate)

Laura January 13, 2016, 11:25 am.

Thanks - that is real food for thought. I admire her fearless attitude towards life and finance.

Stephen January 13, 2016, 11:26 am.

Great interview and a great story!

I especially enjoyed her mindset in tackling debt. Stickin’ it to the banks by paying it down as quickly as possible! I took a similar approach when attacking my own. It tends to lessen the burden of the radiating evil that one feels while owing any amount of money.

Fervent January 13, 2016, 11:28 am.

Wow this was a great interview. Her story about post FIRE life resonates with me. I have lots I want to do, but my day job is getting in the way right now. I plan to be just as busy post FIRE but doing things on my terms!

This girl deserves this lifestyle. Good for her! I love hearing stories like this. Its very motivational. Its not easy to go to law school and become a lawyer not to mention hold back on using money when you are in your twenties and even early 30s. Kuddos to thrifty gal!

My story is a lot different to start but we have the same long term goal which is early retirement. Unfortunately I will be somewhere in my 40s before I can retire and that is because I started late!

Better late then never though!

Mrs. Healthywealth January 14, 2016, 9:34 pm.

“Unfortunately I will be somewhere in my 40s before I can retire and that is because I started late!”

Haha you know you’ve been reading a lot of early retirement websites when you say “unfortunately” to retiring in 40’s…I can totally relate. Sure 30’s would have been great, but that’s when I was learning my life lessons to get on this track. I’ve finally gotten in a place where I’m grateful for just being able to be in this position to retire in my 40’s .

Dave C January 13, 2016, 11:50 am.

As a lawyer I can definitely attest that it is a bad profession for excessive spending. Three figure bar tabs, fancy vacations, and constant eating out are common among even young lawyers who still have a negative net worth. Several lawyers I know financed a luxury automobile right after being called to the bar. I’ve fallen victim to these traps as well (luckily, nothing too crazy like financing a car, and doing much better since discovering this blog). Great to see someone bucking the trend. Hope to follow in her footsteps.

Tom January 13, 2016, 12:06 pm.

Good for you Anita! Glad to see that another one of our Ecuador crew has pulled the plug. Amy and I are still working towards it. I’m hoping to “retire” from the full-time rat race later this year, with the idea that part-time work will pay for the fun stuff like vacations. Parabéns!

HeadedWest January 13, 2016, 1:38 pm.

I am a lawyer who saved 25x my core living expenses but it took 12 years, not 5. The extra seven years I “lost” saving is a long story, but can basically be chalked up to mental illness and the consequences of not dealing with it soon enough. I’m doing better now, but I hope readers can keep in mind that many of us struggle with challenges and that some of those are hidden. Not everybody is blowing their money on giant houses and expensive clothing. I never was a very materialistic person and if I had been in good health, FI could have come a lot sooner.

Wb January 13, 2016, 9:32 pm.

Thank you, headedwest and have been there. My particular challenge was TMJ issues and it was not cheap, but I overcame it, a small miracle. I believe there is another type of wealth is your health.

Kathy Abell January 16, 2016, 6:11 pm.

Headwest – I don’t think the intent of this blog is to dump on people dealing with serious life issues or struggling to hold on to the bottom rung of the economic ladder. Life is not a competition nor a race to see how soon each of us can retire (I didn’t retire until 55, which is better than 65, but certainly not 30s or 40s). The purpose of this blog is to slap clueless people up side the head and tell them, “LOOK! You don’t have to buy into that whole keep up with the Jones’s thing. Buying more stuff won’t make you happy. Don’t fall into the trap of lifestyle inflation with every salary increase!” I used to joke I never got a raise because with each raise I would increase my 401k contribution. While I wouldn’t say we lived frugally, we did live UNDER our means and did not go overboard in the fancy car arena. ;) So what it took you 12 years – it took me 29! and my husband 33. We still have a ways to go to reach the MMM level of frugality – I need to make vast improvements in the food prep area, but I am holding the line regarding the fancy cars! It helps that I am one of those blessed few with both a corporate pension AND a 401k; hubby also has a union pension. My pension was one of the reasons I stayed with my employer – that, and the short commute, not to mention the good software engineering salary. ;)

Val January 13, 2016, 8:52 pm.

Another of the Ecuador crew chiming in to applaud Anita! So glad to see you are doing it your way. I went back to work after taking off 18 months because I wanted a new challenge. Retirement 2.0 is coming soon.

MMM, I love your case studies! Anita, it’s super awesome that you were able to avoid giving to all the people that say you have to “spend this, and buy that…” to be successful when you have a high paying, high profile job. I hope you have an awesome time travelling the world!

Naloxone January 13, 2016, 12:26 pm.

The average starting salary in many medical specialties is nearly twice Anita’s (of course, medical school is 4 years instead of 3, plus a 3-to-5 year residency, plus a 1-to 3 - year fellowship). I work with more than one doctor still putting in 60+ hour weeks in the eighth decade of life. #cautionarytales To be fair, though, medicine is fun and rewarding most of the time. I speculate corporate lawyering might be less so.

Dustin Stout January 14, 2016, 12:25 pm.

Not sure why it has to be a cautionary tale. Some people are passionate about their work, and don’t want to retire early. Nothing wrong with that. Why do we assume that everyone should retire early? Find out what your passion is, and do it. Isso é tudo.

Chad Carson January 13, 2016, 12:27 pm.

Great interview and story! Thanks for sharing with us, Anita! And thanks MMM for having bringing her on.

I think there were a lot of gems in this article, but most of all I liked the ideas about post “retirement.” Creativity and contribution don’t have to stop post FI. You just get to choose and experiment with methods other than the job that happens to pay you the most money.

Freedom of expression and and freedom to reinvent yourself (many times) are exciting post FI possibilities.

Another Chicago Law Alum January 13, 2016, 12:28 pm.

The part about luck is the timing of it all. The $160K starting salary was due to an “arms race” in biglaw hiring in the 5 years before she graduated & height of bubble economy for clients. She is smart enough to know the role that played in her specific retirement plan. She hit the sweetest spot possible. Admitting it doesn’t detract from her hard work or accomplishments.

Also, the hard part in sticking to this plan is not just eschewing the materialism. It’s recognizing that you don’t measure your success by your career advancement in biglaw. It is easy to think you will get out after a few years, and the culture sweeps you up into WANTING to be a partner and get the reputational and ego accolades. It’s not just the money. You have to keep a very strong personal identity of what matters to you and what you want in life, while impressing other people who presume that of course your goal is making partner (even though more people leave this track than make it).

TinyDancer March 4, 2016, 11:13 am.

Reading this blog post and comments late, but I think you nailed it on the head. I’m a 5th year at a Big Law firm with a 1-year-old baby and hubby who earns way, way less than I do. My FI date is about 4 years away and I fluctuate between “of course I can hang in there for 4 more years to have a lifetime of FI” and “I can’t do this soul-sucking, time-wasting, job for even one more day.” I often marvel at my friends/colleagues who are sucked into what I call the River Toward Success. They aren’t actively making a decision that they *want* to be a partner and have that life–indeed, most associates think partners seem pretty miserable–but they just “float” down that path of life, and once they’re 7 or 8 years in, well, why *not* try to make partner, since that’s the next marker of success? It makes me feel isolated and, frankly, sometimes I wonder if I’m the crazy one. But you’re right: you have to keep the strong personal identity of what ultimately matters or you can easily fall prey to the many, many traps in this field.

I admire anyone who has the courage to do this so young. It’s definitely easier to do with a higher income but don’t be so quick to dismiss it as obvious and easy. The vast majority of people I know with high income do not save large amounts of money. I’m beginning to believe that Einstein had it wrong: hedonic adaption is the most powerful force in the universe, not compound interest. Anyways, I am going to retire as soon as I win the Powerball tonight.**

I think the comments about loneliness are interesting. I would love to hear more of your thoughts on this topic. Thanks for sharing your story.

**Kidding. Philosophers no not play the lottery!

zephyr January 14, 2016, 9:03 pm.

I agree about the loneliness – money/time/freedom does not necessarily equal happiness. For some it is community and a satisfying job regardless of the income level. I remember traveling all over Europe in my 20’s and although I saw AMAZING things, I often felt amiss, sad. If you are going to quit your job and be FI, ya better have an idea of what satisfies your heart.

Neil January 13, 2016, 12:39 pm.

Great story! I love it when high earners also acknowledge and utilize the power of frugality, rather than dismissing it. Also that she just recognized what was worth it to her to spend on, and ignoring the rest, even if it’s what society pushes as the norm.

Rakiki January 13, 2016, 12:50 pm.

Muito agradável. I have been contaminated with the early retirement bug and these thoughts run through my mind every single day. My wife and I have built up a 1.6M Canadian net worth and $38K in dividend income at age 38. House paid off, no debt. Our current objective is retirement at 45 with a $70K income and we plan on earning about $10K each part time. We are both in the golden handcuffs of public service work, which means we have to put in 20 years to get anything decent back from our retirement contributions. 7 more to go but it isn’t all that bad since we have young kids who are in school. It would be difficult to gallivand around the world for the next little while. But still, an inspiring story!

Wow Rakiki – you could easily retire already with that kind of assets and dividend income.

As long as you truly enjoy your work and aren’t staying around for even more money, this is a happy story. But do NOT work another day to get more money that you don’t need! I gave up millions in stock options and salary over the last 10 years of not being an engineer, but I’m glad I didn’t imagine any golden handcuffs. Plus, remember that people tend to earn money after retirement as well.

This response is not specifically for Rakiki because I don’t know the full details of his situation, but rather for ALL the people who have more than enough but keep working to pad the coffers.

Drop your fear! You’ll only grow MORE fearful with each year that you keep working in a situation like this, because you are indulging in a habit-forming behavior rather than acting logically.

Rakiki January 13, 2016, 5:49 pm.

Thanks MMM. I appreciate and agree with the logic. It’s all good for now, work isn’t too onerous and working conditions are pretty great. We save about 50% of our net income. Let’s just say you have stoked my engine a bit more to refine the calculations. I also need to badassify my significant other and take the katana to some recurring expenses. We are not quite there yet, but to hang it up mid-40s is still pretty sweet.

ESI January 14, 2016, 8:53 am.

You’re starting to convince me. :)

I happen to love my job though, so I’m not sure if I’m staying because I love it or because I’m fearful. Finding the true answer to that might require more soul-searching than I’m willing or able to do.

AJ Clark January 14, 2016, 10:32 am.

The opportunity cost of missing out on lost wages, etc. is much larger for you (and for me) than I think MMM appreciates. I think Financial Samurai’s take on the matter is way better. He feels the income for maximum happiness is about 200K a year, which is pretty good, and translates to between 5 and 10 MM of investable assets.

I just passed 1 MM in net worth, and according to MMM probably have more than enough to retire, but why would I? I have a very high paying job, orders of magnitude more than Anita’s 160K starting salary, and I don’t have a family yet. Why would I throw away my most important asset (my career) to live on 40K a year of passive income in a low COL state? I hope to reach 5 MM in net worth in the next 5-7 years, and then hope to reconsider early retirement, but who knows.

When you have a big shovel, the best thing to do (in my opinion) is to keep using it. I would much rather retire with my ability to spend money on whatever I want (within reason of course) instead of living on 40K a year.

I’m sure I’ll take heat from other people for this comment, but whatever.

Oi AJ & # 8211; you make a good point that a high income is a powerful tool.

But just imagine for a moment that spending more money was NOT the path to happiness? What if spending even $40k per year was not only plenty, but almost DOUBLE what you might need to get the most satisfying life? Would you continue working in that case?

As you may know, I cannot seem to spend more than about $25k/year even with what I feel is virtually unlimited income/assets. So I am sure glad I didn’t spend a day longer in my worn-out cubicle than I did!

This lifestyle redesign is primary focus of this blog. It sounds like you haven’t read very much of it yet, but for a shortcut to understand my thought experiment, imagine you have $40 million per year in passive income from investments. What kind of work would you do in THAT case?

That’s how a Mustachian feels on $40k.

p. s. a quick terminology correction: an “order of magnitude” means a 10x increase. So for you to earn “orders of magnitude” more than Anita, you’d have to be at least 100x higher, or $16 million per year. It’s a nerdy thing to nitpick, but we like math here.

AJ Clark January 18, 2016, 1:00 pm.

Mesmo? I thought an order of magnitude was dependent on the unit that you are talking about (at least that’s how I’ve always used the term). I make between 700 and 800K a year which is about 4-5 times larger than Anita.

I’ve actually been reading your blog for years. I can agree with you that spending more money is *not* the path to happiness. 40K happens to be what I pay for in rent right now annually… However, it’s between 5-7% of my salary, so I don’t think it’s a completely outrageous expense. My largest expense by far each year is taxes… Not counting them, or rent, I probably spend between 60 and 70K a year, which really isn’t that much, considering my income.

I’m not sure that to be considered Mustachian, you need to live ultra-frugally on 40K a year. I just think that you should live significantly below your means (which I’ve tried to illustrate that I do above). I know ESI also lives significantly below his means. Too many people in this country live *above* their means, and end up working jobs they hate for their whole lives.

To me, it’s a trade off. I can continue working my (sometimes stressful, but sometimes rewarding) job, and live with virtually no monetary worries. Or, I can leave my city, family, and friends for low COL “paradise” and try to make ends meet on 40K a year… Which would certainly be do-able for me. I just really don’t think that I would be much happier there compared to here… And I really can’t justify throwing away a job that makes me this much money at a pretty young age.

I guess to each his own.

P. S. Not to give someone else free advertising on your blog, as I believe both ideologies are great, both ESI and Financial Samurai are good for people are career oriented and want to get the most out of their most valuable asset…

AJ Clark January 18, 2016, 1:07 pm.

P. P.S. I’m a pretty smart person, I had to Google “order of magnitude” because I was sure I was using it correctly. The second definition is “relative size, quantity, quality, etc.”. Which is in line with how I used the term. I never took physics or engineering classes, so that’s why I wasn’t exposed to the 10x definition.

Steve January 13, 2016, 1:07 pm.

Good interview! I’m another attorney with a ridiculously high salary. I started in 2011 and plan to be done in four more years. Anita’s story is pretty impressive. My expenses are likely higher than Anita’s and I have a wife and kid on the way. But we are about half way there, although I am worried I won’t have the guts to walk away from a 200k/year job when the time comes at 35. It is nice to see that I wouldn’t be the only one!

Brandon January 13, 2016, 1:25 pm.

Quote from TG: “Most of the people I know work and can’t hang out during the week. & # 8221;

BOOM – right there is my sole problem in life summed up in one sentence. Although I’m not fully retired yet, I have a very relaxed and open schedule. Everyone else is bogged down by debt and constant work to barely keep up. They have no free time to do fun stuff with me, and if they have some time they don’t have any money. I guess it’s all about surrounding yourself with similar people with early retirement in mind and/or a life designed around living, not working.

I really love the idea of working part time even after retirement. I have found that I only enjoy new experiences and don’t like to do the same thing forever. Get it, win it, leave it. A part time job would be an excellent way to gain new experiences and open up your mind to new ideas. Adventurous jobs like a flight attendant as mentioned in this post or as some kind of tour guide/ranger out West in the mountains would be awesome.

Thanks for the new ideas and interesting perspective once again, MMM!

kaz January 15, 2016, 8:26 pm.

I found this problem to be solved by joining a Meetup group set up for people who did not work during the day. We regularly met up for brunches, lunches, movies, picinics etc. Best thing about it is that its usually much cheaper to to do stuff during the day than in the evening – so you have the same great experiences but at much less cost. For instance, many of the fine dining restaurants have great lunch specials. Movies and theater matinees are usually discounted. You get to go to the hip establishments and not have to fight the crowds like on a weekend.

The people who belonged to the group were a great mix of early retired, people who worked from home, shiftworkers, share/forex/commodity traders, partners of expats who couldnt legally work, and contractors who were inbetween jobs. If there is no Daytime Meetup group in your area – set one up!

Megan January 20, 2016, 1:26 pm.

Bom ponto. When I was home on maternity leave the biggest worry I had (aside from caring for this new tiny person we had magically created) was how to fill my time and stay connected with other people. The idea of being home alone all day for weeks on end was really scary. I made a number of great friends who were completely different from the type of friends I normally make through school/work. What we had in common was being home with a new baby during the day. Those friendships were very meaningful to me. The corollary to being retired is (I expect) that you will make new friends with new people in different places in their lives than the people you normally socialize with now.

Chris January 13, 2016, 1:51 pm.

Just really impressed by people who have these realizations at such a young age.

Hats off to an incredible person.

Syed January 13, 2016, 2:07 pm.

Enlightening interview and great example of taking full advantage of the opportunities available to you. Being a medical professional myself, I get tired of hearing other professionals complain about how long their commute is or how much they have to pay in taxes, while they are financing fancy cars and big houses. You can live where you want and find a position with a nice commute if you look hard enough. It’s so easy to just go with the flow of complaining and financing that retirement, let alone early retirement, becomes an impossibility.

ams January 13, 2016, 2:36 pm.

Good for her. Why did she become a lawyer, though, if not to practice law? Was it just for the cash?

I know more lawyers that are unhappy practicing law than are happy. Many times what we think a career will look like when we are 19 has no semblance of reality once we finally get out into the real world.

MrFrugalChicago January 15, 2016, 3:07 pm.

Why did MMM become a software engineer if not to software engineer?

I became a software engineer because I like it. I plan to code till the day I die. Apparently the subject in this post, as well as MMM, do not find the same enjoyment from their career.

Mark January 16, 2016, 11:36 am.

Isso é correto. Most people find that anything they do for a long period of time gets boring, even if they love it at first. Maybe you’re the exception, but I wouldn’t count on it if I were you. I have a friend who retired at 58 from engineering. All he knew how to be was an engineer. I told him he was smart and could learn new things. His reply was “but I’m a good engineer”. He had the money part solved, but he never developed an identity outside of being an engineer. 12 years later, he suffers from depression and other health problems and his house is in nightmare condition because he sleeps and watches TV all day. Don’t let yourself end up like my engineer friend.

Legal Eagle January 13, 2016, 2:37 pm.

Before all you MMM readers rush out to take your LSAT and submit your law school applications, take careful note that Anita had $100,000 in student loans. Also take careful and considered note that she went to University of Chicago Law School, which is ranked in the top 5 of all law schools. If you go to any law school ranked outside the top 5-7 and you’re paying for it with student loans like Anita, you’re just asking for trouble. Also, bear in mind that many people absolutely loathe working in large law firms where they control your life with 80-hour workweeks and more stress than you thought possible. If you don’t get a job in a large law firm (known as “BigLaw” among lawyers), you can expect to make $40,000 to $60,000 but your student loans will still be in the $150,000 to $200,000 range. Anita also graduated before the bottom fell out of the legal industry.

It’s extremely common to find law school graduates with $200,000+ in high interest loans (which, by the way, cannot be discharged in bankruptcy) working temporary document review jobs or working for peanuts in small law firms. Law firm salaries are bimodal, if you’re not among the minority working in large firms (almost all BigLaw lawyers went to the top 14 law schools, but only the top 5 law schools are reasonably safe bets these days), you can expect to work long, grueling hours in small law firms for a fraction of the pay ($40-60k like I stated above). For the vast majority of law school grads, they end up making very average salaries ($40-60k), but have HUGE student loan debts ($150-200k+) with high interest rates (think 6-8%). If you want early retirement, law school is simply a very bad bet.

If you don’t get into one of the top five law schools (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U. of Chicago, Columbia), you’re better off not going unless you’re absolutely dying to be a lawyer and you have first-hand experience shadowing a lawyer, understand what the day-to-day life of a working lawyer entails (hint: many, if not most, lawyers hate their jobs and want to get out ASAP), received a full or nearly full scholarship. From a financial perspective, there are better things to do with your career: medical school or computer science.

tl;dr Rule for Applying to Law School.

1) Did you get into Harvard, Yale, Stanford, U. of Chicago, or Columbia law school?

Yes: “consider” going to law school.

Agreed – the legal profession is a much more difficult path to riches than, say, software engineering. Software is still a top 1% field in terms of getting the really great jobs, but you can get there with no university degree at all and be making $120,000 by age 20. Provided you spend some of your high school years making stuff that shows off sufficient skill that is.

See this other Mustachian’s work for reference: mrmoneymustache/2014/08/25/indexview/ .. Tristan is still doing the high-end education, but he could have gone directly from high school to industry if he wanted.

Dave C January 13, 2016, 4:44 pm.

From my understanding the problem of huge student debt and low starting salaries is greater in the American legal profession than Canada. Any law school in Canada can land you a job in “big law” and the difference between the high and low starting salaries is not that vast.

Still, I agree even in Canada law is not friendly to the early retiree due to the time and expense of getting a degree then working your way up, which makes Anita’s accomplishment all the more impressive!

Ian January 14, 2016, 10:46 am.

I don’t disagree with all of your points Legal Eagle. But let me offer my experiences briefly as a counterpoint:

1) I did not go to a top law school 5 school, or even a top 50. I chose to stay in CA at a less prestigious law school because I knew I wanted to practice in that market.

2) I did not graduate in the top 10% of my class. I did not participate in any prestigious activities (i. e., law review, moot court).

3) I graduated with $200,000 in SL debt with 6-8% interest.

4) I graduated at the height of the recession 2009. This was when firms were laying off substantial associates.

5) I did not go into BigLaw. I practiced at a smaller firm where my starting salary was $70-80K.

6) I did enjoy the work. Everyone at the small firm enjoyed the work.

7) I moved to a larger market and am now in Biglaw. Eu gosto disso. Some are totally unhappy.

8) I expect to make more than $300k in 2016. I work 50-60 hours per week. I still have a six-figure SL debt but have refinanced to a very low rate. I can kill it within a year.

9) I consider myself lucky and my experiences are probably an exception.

Not everyone takes the traditional route you described above.

Dan January 14, 2016, 10:31 pm.

I think this is the over-simplified, pessimistic version of reality. I went to a third-tier school, and graduated at the tail end of the market crash. Nonetheless, because I was able to get a full scholarship and attend part-time while continuing to work, I graduated with zero law school debt.

What’s more, since I am patent-bar eligible (for those who don’t know, this means I have a degree in science or engineering) even that third-tier law school diploma was sufficient to land a 6-figure job right out of school, in my low Cost of Living town.

Steven January 13, 2016, 3:53 pm.

Any plans in the future to make the same Canada to Chicago to Omaha trek?

Scott January 13, 2016, 4:42 pm.

Great Job Anita! Most long term international travel is done by people right after college or after their careers over, so it gets a little lonelier in your 30’s & 40’s. I started traveling in my 30’s after FI. I found unstructured adventures enjoyable. But I would get much more satisfaction when I would intersperse my adventures with attaching myself to a community setting such as a working gigs in Antarctica, long term volunteer on a Kibbutz in Israel, or various shorter volunteer and work stints. Long term travel is much more fun when you get to swap stories with people you get to know, especially other travelers. It gets even more challenging if you ever decide to settle down. Most non travelers & consumers can not conceive of anyone taking a vacation longer than a week or two, let alone a young person with financial independence. Happy travels!

frank January 13, 2016, 4:53 pm.

I really resonated with the need to own less stuff. When I found out I was FI (actually it was MMM himself who told me I was.. I was just saving/investing not really knowing why) I owned a really fast airplane that i built myself. I used it to fly aerobatics, acrosss country to visit the in-laws etc.. I was happy.

The thing about airplanes though is that they are maintenance hogs, even though the amount of maintenance pales to insignificance when compared to the thousands of hours it took to build it!

As it was also a “big hole in the sky into which to throw money” I sold it an put the resulting $100k into investments. I was surprised at how good that felt.

I am now beginning to realise that the less stuff I own, the happier I feel! The fact that I worry about pipes leaking backa t the house or the rentals when we take foreign vacations is also not lost on me!

Hmm.. This Summer we will be taking a 2 month tour of Thailand, Laos, Veitnam and China.. By train! I know it will be hard to forget about the house (which we basically built ourselves) and the rentals. The plan is to see i there is somewhere other than the US we’d rather live when my Wife finally quits work.

Of course in the back of my mind I am thinking I could be even happier if I sold the house, rentals, tractor and my substantial collection of tools…hmmm.

Sheila January 13, 2016, 5:31 pm.

When I’m at the ripe older age of 90, I want to look back on my life and think about all of the wonderful experiences I had. I’m sure I will not remember all of the Starbucks coffee I drank or the the latest PS game consul I played with. Though I do have fond memories of playing Nintendo and Pac Man…but still, great memories over stuff!

While an extreme example (I can only dream of $160k in income), the point of this story is valid. It’s not about what you earn but about what you spend. Sometimes this is tough to learn, and I’m still on the journey to getting there. I really want to see the new Star Wars movie, but will my life be any worse for not seeing it? And that $40 (me and Poopsie), will be far better off elsewhere. Loved the interview MMM, would be keen to see more “success story” type posts.

MJB January 14, 2016, 8:27 am.

The answer to your question is, “Yes.”

Don’t be frugal to the point of missing out on fun stuff like the occasional movie, especially if it’s a quality spectacle that doesn’t come around all that often in theaters. A little fun here and there (and I’m not talking “take a week long Caribbean cruise” kind of fun) will not sabotage your future self. A good option might be to hold off until the move is in the second run theaters – assuming you have some in your area?

TheStoicStudent January 14, 2016, 5:47 pm.

My local movie theater has a “Super Tuesday” where you can see any currently released film for $5. I think most theaters have a bargain day, so do some search on your local theaters. I am a movie buff but I found this to be the most efficient way to watch new films that I’d really enjoy watching in a big screen.

Mark T January 16, 2016, 11:15 pm.

It will be available to borrow at your local library in a few months. Consider it a exercise in patience. I love movies and used to go multiple times a week and rent them at Blockbuster(yes I’m old). But now I just get them at the library or watch them on Netflix for a fraction of what tickets cost today. Just looked it up; $16 for 3D tickets for Star Wars, plus snacks it will easily cost a family $100 for one outing which could be done for under $5 with home made popcorn and drinks and borrowed at the library.

David January 13, 2016, 7:08 pm.

People who love exercise will always outlast people who have to make resolutions to do it. Same thing applies here. People like Anita who genuinely don’t care about material possessions will always be able to retire before people who have to discipline themselves to forsake luxuries. So yeah, her high salary played a role. Her disregard for material things played a bigger one. Thanks for the inspirational post, Anita.

Unsure January 13, 2016, 7:13 pm.

Thanks for the great post and hats off to all of you who are so good at minimizing expenses and tracking your progress on the journey so clearly.

My own progress on the journey is less clear. I started out for several years at a non-profit earning minimum wage. In my early thirties I had maybe two thousand dollars as a net worth. Then I moved on to work privately as a consultant in the same field (education) and had a huge jump in my earnings. Since I was used to living like a student still, I was relatively easily able to save a large percentage of my income. Like Anita, I didn’t think it could last so I thought I’d better save as much as I could. I felt like I was living large but I had no car, shared accommodation etc and could save big. First I was aiming for 50K, then 100, then 150, 200, 250 etc….After a few years I got married and chose to take on more of my wife’s preferences which meant higher rent and much higher discretionary spending. Having a kid relit a fire under my #ss and I went into earning and savings mode again. Now I’m mid 40s, minimal mortgage and probably have enough real estate income to ‘retire’ from my main work however:

& # 8211; Unlike most people here I’m really poor at tracking my income and expenses so don’t know for sure how we would be (also my income and expenses vary wildly from month to month)

& # 8211; I spend a lot of money on eating out and random things (I suck)

& # 8211; I spend a lot of money on travel as I live half way across the world from my family.

To me, money equals freedom and I like to have occasional big cash infusions (10 or 20K) coming in that I can use for overseas trips home (6-8K for flights alone when I bring family), eating out, etc. I’m afraid if I let go of working in my field altogether, although we could survive, maybe I would feel limited or like I was trapped.

Also, would I miss my old job which I still enjoy aspects of? Would I replace it with more fulfilling adventures? Or would it be a fair amount of wasted downtime without using better aspects of myself? I know I ought to feel like I can clearly answer those questions myself but I don’t always trust myself.

I’m blessed to be in the position to ponder these things thanks to hard work, a lot of luck, inspirations like MMM and much more. But due to my own areas of suck I’m unable to cut the cord yet. In a couple more years I think I will have more financial clarity. In the meantime I’m working less and get to spend some quality time with my son while he’s young so I’m truly lucky but I do wonder sometimes if I’m making as much of this life as I could.

Michelle January 13, 2016, 11:21 pm.

Ótimo post! Early retirement is what I’m aiming for as well. I earn a great income online and this will allow me to retire comfortably by the age of 30, but I could probably retire just fine in about a year or two if I wanted to as well.

Even though I do make a large income, I think what you said is important – that your savings rate is important. We save a significant portion of our income each month and we live on very low budgets, even though we travel full-time and have a great time. Living on a low budget IS possible!

Rob January 14, 2016, 1:24 am.

I think this blog needs a new rule that makes the word “luck” the only banned 4 letter word. Winning the lottery is lucky. Getting a good job and ignoring pressure to spend takes determination and good planning. Be mindful and realize that choices determined your end goal. Even the choice to buy a lottery ticket;)

Bee January 14, 2016, 3:06 am.

Sheila January 14, 2016, 12:34 pm.

Thriftygal also worked to get her job as a lawyer at a top company. She worked hard to study for the LSATs, worked hard in a top law school, worked hard to pass the bar and then to get a job. Sure luck played a small role, but her hard work and determination payed off.

FruGAL February 16, 2016, 12:45 pm.

I do appreciate that Thriftygal was being modest by highlighting her luck and downplaying her hard work. However, I think it’s great to be mindful that good circumstances are often a combination of hard work AND luck. While hard work was certainly a prerequisite to Thriftygal’s high-paying job, she is absolutely right to chalk up her good timing to luck: “I also happened to job hunt in the sweet spot of the naughts before the recession hit.”

I know many people who went to Top 10 law schools who were law students when the economy crashed and got closed out of the big firm market. Good people who had worked their butts off to get where they were. Suddenly even the unpaid government internships were absolutely cutthroat because paying gigs had all but evaporated. Big firm hiring happens in a really rigid way, where firms hire summer classes of law students, and then extend them permanent offers, and that’s how they hire the majority of their junior attorneys. There are a few other windows for getting one’s foot in the door, but for the most part, that’s it. So when the firms shrunk their summer classes down during the bad economy, many people missed out altogether on the opportunity to get these jobs.

I applaud Thriftygal for her gratitude about the role of luck in graduating law school at the right time.

Skytenshi January 14, 2016, 1:51 am.

I absolutely resonate with Anita. I am currently 32 (turning 33 this year) and will be leaving the legal career for good on 29 February 2016. A lot of my friends say it’s a waste that I devoted so many years of hard work at school and university to obtain my qualification only to walk away from my career so soon. Some cannot imagine why I would want to live frugally when I could continue making ridiculously good money in order to continue a ridiculously excessive lifestyle. For a typical lawyer, this means lots of luxurious vacations, daily fine dining, materialistic purchases and membership of exclusive clubs.

It’s interesting that Anita mentioned if she is making 4 times the average person, why she can’t retire 4 times earlier. A lot of my friends in the legal industry are also making over $160,000 a year (and in jurisdictions with much less burdensome tax obligations than the US) but they cannot for the life of them imagine retiring early. Last time I met up with them, they were complaining that their income was not enough to support a family of 4 while maintaining a reasonable living standard. The more you earn, the more you spend. It is unfortunate that most of the world operates this way.

Like Anita, I envisage that someday, when I am bored, I may return to paid employment, but it will be on my own terms, and it will certainly not involve reentering the rat race.

Ben January 14, 2016, 2:31 am.

Not a bad Trivia player either ;)

The Sydney Team misses your random and accurate input.

I can account for the Mustache tendencies of Anita considering we regularly targeted winning the $100 voucher at the Sugermill Pub and each person in the team got a free steak and a few beers for the table.

Bee January 14, 2016, 3:06 am.

I think Thriftygal is very humble is claiming her situation came across with ‘luck’!

Pete January 14, 2016, 7:55 am.

Thats a great story and I love the idea of retireing early. I would appreciate it if someone can share with me the dollars and cents that she had to have on hand at the time she or anyone else had when they retired. If I do this I need to compare to others. I nned to have a dollar goal to know if I have enough to do the same as they did. Can you please share these details with us!

Mr. Frugal Toque January 14, 2016, 9:32 am.

We generally invoke the 4% rule:

Since investments grow at an average of 7% per year (long term), it’s safe to take 4% out every year, leaving 3% to account for inflation and market fluctuations.

The trick, then, is figuring out how to live a happy life without a high consumption life style so that the 4% you need doesn’t require a nest egg in the multi-millions of dollars.

Pete January 14, 2016, 11:09 am.

Obrigado por isso. I am familiar with the 4% rule but I am always curious to know just how much money these folks have in the bank and/or investments when they decide to pull the trigger on early retirement. Its just something I want to know but this information is seldom provided. If anyone has the dollars and cents totals they had at the time they decided to enter early retitrement please share the info…I know the total amount each person needs/has will vary based on desired lifestyle…I just want the actual dollar details…

Laura82 January 14, 2016, 2:12 pm.

Check out the Forum. There’s a subforum of people who have already pulled the trigger. Some of them go into detail of how much they had when they retired.

Meg January 14, 2016, 1:20 pm.

I understand the calculations, but I don’t *believe* them. It’s like rappelling down a cliff. The first time I did it, I understood that the rope would support me, but I’m afraid of heights, and that first step into thin air would not have been possible for me if I hadn’t seen other people do it without plummeting to their deaths.

Meg January 14, 2016, 9:45 am.

It’s none of my business, but I would be interested to know how much money Anita had saved before retiring. I’m in a similar position, but I’m scared of taking the plunge. Cold, hard numbers of people who have retired successfully would help.

Pete January 14, 2016, 11:11 am.

Thats what I want to know as well. For anyone who has retired early out there, please share these details with the rest of us.

Kathy Abell January 16, 2016, 8:03 pm.

Pete and Megan – You are forgetting part of the equation: 25 times your expenses. It doesn’t matter how much you have saved (i. e., $5k, $1M, $2M) if it’s not 25 times your expenses. In my case, I tracked my monthly expenses for a year to come up with my number – which was discouragingly high. :( Then I realized some of the needed income stream would be provided by hubby’s pension and eventually our social security checks (so we wouldn’t have to rely solely upon the 4% safe withdrawal rate from our stash to fund our lifestyle). After taking another look at post retirement income sources (including dividend payments from our investments), the number didn’t look so bad after all. Plus, there is lots of potential progress to make on the spending reduction side, so that will make the stash last longer also.

The main point is not to worry about other people’s number – take a look at your spending circumstances and go from there. If you don’t have insight to your annual spending, use your monthly spending times 12, or your weekly spending times 52. Then multiply by 25 to get your number. ;)

HeadedWest January 17, 2016, 2:38 pm.

This is absolutely correct. Especially for the less frugal among us, using your own spending as the starting point is the best approach because it naturally leads you to question whether you can adjust that number downwards. For me, slashing spending was the key after I already had a good bit stashed away.

Lauren Graft January 14, 2016, 4:11 pm.

Check out the FIRE calculator tool (firecalc) that runs market simulations over the whole history of the market. You can run it with your numbers but make sure you select long time period (60 years at least if you are young). You’ll find out that in order to be guaranteed that you’ll never run out of money even in the worst market, you really need 1M – 2M depending on your withdrawal rate. Anything else and you are taking a risk.

But for many people FI does not mean they’ll never, ever work for money again. It just gives them more power in making choices in life. So they can quit the job they hate and not worry if they don’t have another one tomorrow.

kelsey January 15, 2016, 8:31 am.

I was wondering the same thing, just an idea or ballpark figure. Is it 500k or 1m or more? Will she have enough if she ever gets married and has kids as well?

Hi Meg – $500k would do for a frugal single person (if they later paired up with another likeminded person they’d be sharing $1M). I had a little under $1M in total assets when I retired 10 years ago, shared for the family of 3.

Meg October 18, 2017, 5:02 pm.

I must not have checked back because I didn’t see this comment until I checked back today to re-read The story of the 33-year old lawyer I remembered from a few years ago–thanks for replying!

After reading up on FIRE over the last few years, though, I disagree that $500k would be enough for a frugal singleton to retire on unless she has a paid-off house.

I have been frugal over the past few years on a BigLaw salary, and I’m planning to retire shortly after my 39th birthday late this year. I worked a little longer than Anita did, but the extra time was worth it for this risk-averse lawyer’s peace of mind.

Troy January 14, 2016, 10:07 am.

I find the most interesting aspect of this story the unexpected challenges portion.

Lets be real, if you came to me and said I am going to interview a single frugal attorney who makes $200K plus per year and enjoys very frugal lifestyle and is focused on saving, the result is easily foretold. So that’s great, but it is also easily replicated.

What was more interesting to me is the fact that after all the money, and the frugal-ness, and the goal reaching, she is lonely, still single and seems to be “antsy”. Interesting that the picture in her mind doesn’t quite match the reality after the goal is met. It is probably hard to form relationships when you are “wandering” and moving about constantly. There are always opportunity costs to our decisions, and I wonder if loneliness is one of hers. That is not to say her accomplishment is not respected. It is simply interesting to me that sometimes what we think is important ends up not being so important down the road.

In my life, having a family and children, I cannot imagine any life goal not revolving around them.

Sure I would have more money and more free time If I was single, or married and childless, but I realized at an early age that seeking out and having those relationship was extremely important to me. I think that is more important than getting a head start on early retirement.

This blog is excellent at pointing out the decisions we make at an early age can have drastic effects on the remainder of our lives. Figuring out the people part sometimes gets forgotten, as many focus on the money. I would suggest focusing on the people first, as this interview spotlights.

Jaime January 14, 2016, 10:11 am.

The stock market indeed has been in the meh range lately. Sucks that she might have to go back to work if this shit continues but luckily she has a degree and legal experience to fall back on so building up additional stash comes easily. For me, being an average Joe, the market kinda freaks me out because of all the volatility. MMM, how do you sleep at night with all of these ups and downs, breh?

Sheila January 14, 2016, 11:19 am.

Stocks are on ‘sale’ right now and it’s the perfect time to work, since the job market has improved, and buy index funds.

Jenny$tache January 14, 2016, 2:07 pm.

Acordado. If for some reason you MUST cash in some investments now, that truly sucks. Otherwise, WOOHOO! time to stock up. It’s only Jan 14th and I’ve already invested about 75% of my planned 2016 contributions. The usual extra I would have put toward the mortgage has been redirected to the retirement stache for as long as this sale continues. Mortgage will be done at Dec 31st this year even if I don’t pay down a single extra cent, but I was planning to accelerate the final bit have it done by July 1. Having a plan for the year’s investments, mortgage pay down and scheduled home maintenance projects is great, but when there is a fabulous sale happening in the markets, then the plan gets a total overhaul so I can maximize the investments when the market says Buy!

wb January 15, 2016, 2:24 pm.

I can appreciate the concept of “stocks are on sale,” but after a personal rate of return last year (yes 12 months) of -2.9779, every visit to my financial freedom calculator is a major downer. Where is this mythical 7%? I am afraid to continue using this in my spreadsheet.

MrFrugalChicago January 15, 2016, 2:32 pm.

Do you know get what long term gains are? If the market did exactly 7% every year, why would we have things like savings accounts?

If you get anxious by daily or even yearly ups and downs – hide your password to your brokerage. Set it on auto-deposit, and have your SO change the passwordt and not tell you what it is.

HeadedWest January 16, 2016, 12:58 pm.

If you look at the history of publicly traded stock indexes going back to the late 1800s, they seem to move in alternate periods of 15-20 years of exuberant growth followed by 15-20 years of “flatlining”. There was a period of exuberance from 1915-1929, followed by the great depression and WW2, then stocks took off from 1948 – 1965, followed by the stagnant seventies, then starting with Reagan they took off again. This is all roughly speaking.

In order for this trend to continue, the flatlining period that began in 2001 needs to continue for a couple more years – which means no growth or even a crash. More cautious souls may therefore wish to work an extra year or two even after investing 25x their annual spending. And after all, if the market does crash it will make a great buying opportunity.

Doug January 14, 2016, 11:31 am.

“I like to set my alarm clock for when I’d normally wake up for work and then cackle when I shut it off and go back to sleep.” & # 8211; So cruel.

Justin January 14, 2016, 11:44 am.

Pretty cool story, MMM. I’m another lawyer that retired at 33 (though I ended up practicing engineering instead of law). Definitely doable.

For my own blog, I interviewed a law school classmate that had basically done the same thing as me without knowing to call it “saving for early retirement”. By 34 or so, she was set to quit work and her husband (also a lawyer) could quit and work at Subway if he wanted. Yeah, they had big salaries but also had big law school debts (out of state law schools) and lived in a spendy city (DC).

The same story got them there as what you and I did – save a big part of their income, live in a regular house, drive a modest car (or take transit or ride a bike), DON’T keep up with your Jonesing co-workers. The shocking thing to me is why more of these incredibly smart and successful professionals aren’t able to achieve FI at an early age.

Skytenshi January 19, 2016, 10:11 pm.

As a fellow lawyer, let me share with you the most common responses I got when I said I was quitting law:

1. What are you going to do with your time?

2. All that time and effort you spent on your education and you are quitting?

3. Where (as in which firm or company) are you going?

4. How are you going to live? I can’t do that. I need to be able to go on vacations whenever I have to.

5. You can only do it cuz you don’t have kids. Private/international school fees cost a lot. I would like to give them the chance to do whatever they want.

6. Good on you. I would like to do the same, but I just don’t have enough savings.

Megan January 21, 2016, 1:28 pm.

As someone blessed with a high salary married to someone who also has a high salary I honestly think that one big factor to why more people in these positions don’t all retire early is simply not knowing it is possible. I always saved because my mother (the accountant) told us to, but I never had a goal in mind. It was just something I did but without a fire under my butt (haha), there was no reason for me to inspect my spending, spend time learning more about investing, or otherwise taking charge of my finances. Once I figured out that FIRE was something that existed and was possible – Uau!

Bruce January 14, 2016, 12:21 pm.

It would appear she probably has 10 years of earned income to qualify for social security and medicare when the time comes. But if she doesn’t she’ll probably want to work again briefly in the USA to get there.

Jim January 14, 2016, 5:25 pm.

I agree completely. I don’t care how FI you are, never pass up free money or that extra safety cushion for old age. If she hasn’t met the SS/medicare threshold, she has to be so close that it would be criminal not to finish. And if she already is starting to feel the pull to part time work (out of boredom or the need for a challenge), that will do the trick for SS as well.

Giovina January 14, 2016, 2:06 pm.

I love this story! I feel like I should be earning more with the degree that I have, but for the time being I have a good schedule, I’m taking classes and I live close to work in a city I like so it’s pretty comfortable. Unfortunately I am projecting quite a while until financial independence, and I still want to be able to travel while I work. I don’t want convenience to hold me back from reaching my goals, but I’m not sure how to progress from where I am now without giving up some of the aspects of the job that I like.

Rob I'm Not a Ludite January 14, 2016, 2:33 pm.

Hey Mustache what about doing an interview with Arebelspy over at the forums, he FIRE’d at a good age, didn’t earn a lot and is well respected.

Jenny$tache January 14, 2016, 2:53 pm.

Comment for MMM regarding the “Cruising was hell” Comente. Sounds like you took the wrong sort of cruise. A cruise is very different things to different people. Yes you can do it the traditional way – lay by the pool, get a massage, line up at the buffet and spend your nights drinking in the clubs or gambling at the casino. Basically indulgence of every sort. Personally none of those activities appeals to me either. If I want to do those things I could stay home and over eat, sit in the sun on my back deck an every evening head to the local bar or casino. I’m guessing your unhappy experience was a Caribbean or other tropical destination. I agree those are mostly about sun, booze and every sort of over indulgence and lack of activity. I’m going to profile here and say they likely appeal to the same people who go to all inclusive island resorts. Eat, drink heavily, perhaps snorkel and then fall back into your lounge chair.

We’ve been cruising annually in the Mediterranean for 7yrs now. I have never been to the casino or the spa on any ship. We use the cruise as a simple way to get to multiple destinations without having to rent cars, plan routes, make multiple hotel reservations etc. It’s a great one price way to sample some of the great cities of the world. Those cities that really appealed to us will get a longer return visit. We choose based on the itinerary with a heavy focus on stops in places with great hiking, biking, castles, ruins or caves to explore, and some of the finest museums and galleries in the world. When we do have a day at sea and are “trapped on board” there are all sorts of activities but you need to be selective (and perhaps be on a cruise line that offers the activities you want). Yes there is bingo by the pool (yawn) but I’ve taken tango lessons with the onboard performers, cooking classes with the chef, did introductory Italian classes, and attended presentations on middle eastern markets and bazaars, the Hermitage Museum’s vast art collection, and the construction the Roman Coliseum. The ship is simply a nice hotel that moves every night while we dine well in the Dining Room (not at the buffet) and sleep deeply after a day of physical exertion. Don’t write off cruising based on one experience. I’ve found it to be a cost effective way to cover a lot of ground and see and do as much as I can stand to pack into each day. For us cruising isn’t the vacation, it’s just the method we’re using to get around to see the places on the itinerary. Saying we going on a cruise for our vacation would be as insane to me a saying we’re going for a drive. That leaves me wondering where are you driving to? What will you see along the way? The car is simply the transportation not the entire vacation.

ESI January 14, 2016, 4:43 pm.

+1 to this comment.

We are the same as the comment above except that we go to the Caribbean. We’ve been three times, loved it each time, and made memories with our family that can’t be bought anywhere.

Yes, we could make memories elsewhere and for less money, but does cheaper always equal better? Does every decision have to go through the “this could be 17 days earlier I could retire” lens? This is the part of retiring early and living the “simple life” that I’m not sure is for me. I admire those who decide this is the path for them and can stick to it, just not sure that path would make me happy.

But as I said above, you have me considering…

Rob I'm Not a Ludite January 15, 2016, 6:27 am.

Have you read Root of Goods review of his cruise? It’s the Moustache’s go on a cruise, highly recomended.

Bee January 16, 2016, 4:35 pm.

Concordo. I guest is depends on the destination the cruise it going to and the type of cruise ship you travel on.

I’m looking at booking a cruise to New Zealand because of the cost effectiveness and the fact that it covers so many of the different islands in New Zealand. It departs from my hometown, Melbourne. It is a great alternative to having to board multiple flights, arrange hire cars and then pay for accommodation for two weeks. I imagine it must be a great alternative for families too.

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Mr. Money Mustache: el gurú financiero que se retiró a los 30.

¿Sueñas con dejar de trabajar, contando con un buen fondo de ahorros que te permita vivir bien a ti y a tu familia, y todo esto siendo aún joven? Si crees que es una utopía y que nadie puede lograrlo, estas equivocado. Te presentamos a Pete, mejor conocido en la web como Mr. Money Mustache, un blogger de finanzas personales de Colorado, Estados Unidos, que se retiró a los 30 años (sí, leíste bien) junto con su esposa para formar una familia y vivir una vida idílica de libertad financiera. Conoce los pasos que siguió para poder retirarse tan joven.

Mr. Money Mustache.

Según Pete, la base para encaminarte a la libertad financiera es hacer un repaso a conciencia de tus gastos. Para él, fue algo sencillo porque nunca fue derrochador. Pete y su esposa trabajaron en la industria de la tecnología por varios años y su vida sencilla, les permitió ir acumulando una buena suma de dinero. Cuando decidieron tener hijos, decidieron gastar aún menos e invertir, y en menos de tres años, sus ahorros fruto del trabajo, la disciplina en los gastos y las inversiones, eran suficientes para comenzar a generar ingresos pasivos a largo plazo, es decir, que no requieren involucramiento personal, por lo que consideraron que podían dar el paso de renunciar a sus trabajos y dedicarse a ser padres.

Esta historia puede sonar como un cuento de hadas; además, Pete y su esposa trabajaban como ingenieros de software, una profesión demandada con la que ganaban bien, cada uno más de 59.000 euros anuales ¿Qué pasa con aquellos que no ejercen carreras de este tipo y cuya situación no es ni de lejos parecida a la de Pete? Pues, también pueden tomar consejos básicos que resultan indispensables si quieres dejar de trabajar eventualmente.

Piensa en qué vas a gastar: lo mencionamos al inicio de este post y lo volvemos a repetir, para Pete es fundamental gastar a conciencia lo necesario para vivir bien. En una entrevista cedida para el portal web MarketWatch, este joven retirado detalla este punto: “Para la mayoría de las personas, recortar gastos es la manera más poderosa para incrementar la riqueza (…) la clave no es privarse de los gustos, es eliminar el deseo de darse esos gustos” Pete declara que el recorte de gastos no implica vivir como un ermitaño, sino que se trata de entender que los fundamentos de la felicidad no yacen en lo material , “…Trabaja en ello y comenzarás una mejor vida inmediatamente, y pronto te preguntarás de dónde vino la compulsión de tener un yate que tenía tu antiguo yo”.

El dinero que no gastas, ponlo a “trabajar”: Pete ha invertido en fondos índice para generar ingresos pasivos. Invertir en el mercado financiero no es tan fácil, ya que implica grandes riesgos, si quieres darte una oportunidad en el mundo de las inversiones, infórmate bien. Puedes comenzar por leer el post de Pete que toca el tema.

En realidad, los consejos de Mr. Money Mustache no son un gran descubrimiento, ni son la panacea para decirle adiós a la vida laboral. Pero si internalizas que hay ciertas cosas materiales que son innecesarias y superfluas, y que cada euro que ahorres puedes usarlo en beneficios a largo plazo, tal vez no logres el anhelado retiro, pero no quedarás en bancarrota cuando se te presente una emergencia.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

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Home / Economy, Featured, Markets, Media, PODCASTS, SHOW NOTES, Stocks /

TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376)

TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376)

August 10, 2014 2:24 pm.

Guest: Mr. Money Mustache joins us for a discussion on how to live the good life on very little. We discuss spending habits and how he and his family live comfortably on $25,000 a year or less.

Some of the major news that moved markets this week are also explored as well as what to watch over the next few weeks.

We go into some detail about how to use the VIX as a portfolio hedge as well.

Listen on @iTunes or scroll down to play.

Mr. Money Mustache is a thirtysomething retiree who now writes about how we can all live a frugal yet “Badass life” of leisure. His wife and he studied engineering and computer science in Canada, then worked in standard tech-industry cubicle jobs in various locations throughout the late ’90s and early 2000s.

Then, they retired from real work way back in 2005 in order to start a family. This was achieved not through luck or amazing skill, but simply by living a lifestyle about 50% less expensive than most of our peers and investing the surplus in very boring conservative Vanguard index funds and a rental house or two.

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Written by Andrew Horowitz · Category(s) Economy, Featured, Markets, Media, PODCASTS, SHOW NOTES, Stocks | Tags: Markets • podcast • SHOW NOTES &nbsp.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

—Huffduffed by nightshowerer on August 14th, 2014.

MMM TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

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Mr Money Moustache.

—Huffduffed by jenbertotti on September 7th, 2015.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) : The Disciplined Investor.

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TDI Podcast: Mr. Money Mustache and Me (#376) | The Disciplined Investor.

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Well, shit I’ve been watching this situation for a few years, and assuming it would just blow over so we wouldn’t have to talk about it here in this place These fatal flaws lurk at the heart of the bitcoin craze . . .

These fatal flaws lurk at the heart of the bitcoin craze, says Mr Money Mustache Mr. Money Mustache — Early Retirement through Badassity.

It is pretty well known at this point that Mr Money Mustache is enamored with solar power Besides the obvious Sci-Fi coolness of it (Electricity, Satellites Mr. Money Mustache (@mrmoneymustache) | Twitter.

Mr Money Mustache @mrmoneymustache Mr Money Mustache was a thirtysomething retiree who now writes about how we can all lead a frugal yet Badass life of leisure Bitcoin obituary stats | 99 Bitcoins.

Jan 29 “Bitcoin’s a joke, but there is serious money to be made” – Yahoo Finance | $11,757 48 Jan 26 “Blockchain’s Broken Promises” – Project.

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